Joe Frazier H2H???

That's a great story, and a great funny reaction by Round15.

 

Liston I, Folley I, Chuvalo I & Patterson I. I think it's important to note that Ali routinely breaks these guys down a bit to where he can afford being flat-footed toward the end. Like in his fight with Terrell.

With his more constant foot-movement and punch-output. Chuvalo I versus Chuvalo II is light and day. Against Terrell Ali was battering him constantly... against Bugler he preferred to work in spurts and take breathers. He even took many breathers against Frazier which was costly.

Ali was able to play around with a caliber fighter of Chuvalo. If he did this with Frazier... like letting him T off on his body then he would be in grave danger and would probably lose. I don't think he would treat Frazier like this. While Chuvalo was his toughest fight he was in total control. How many rounds did Chuvalo win anyway?

You're telling me ALi was sticking and moving? That he wouldn't utilize this against Frazier? You think that Ali wouldn't move & hit. He can get away with moving, hitting, and playing with his Mildernburg pre-exile opponents. Against Frazier he would be in total retreat. Not just backward movement, but tons of lateral movement too. He wouldn't be suffocated on the ropes like he was in FOTC. In fact he would probably be on the ropes half the time he was in FOTC I would guesstimate.

Alright, I'll bring up a film comparison later. Do you take Chuvalo's comments with a grain of salt anyway?

 

No difference between FOTC and Pre-exile Ali? A UD all the same? I like your Holyfield decision. I think Holyfield is a real tough fight for Frazier, frankly.

 

Really? So how much of a difference is there between the two versions of Ali to you?

 

Fair enough

 

A fight with '67 Ali wouldn't have been nearly as damaging for Joe IMO. Don't get me wrong, the first 5 rounds of FOTC is among the most enjoyable watching Ali. Perhaphs the most. He's moving beautifully, and for once - economically, and punching extremely sharply. But he's adpoting a very bold plan: trying to put the hurt on Frazier early in order not having to find out what's really there in the late rounds.

'67 Ali would have ridden the bicycle much more. It would probably have looked more like the rematch - not at all as exciting or as pleasing to the eye.

But the reason why I love Ali above all others is that he had this ready to pull out for a long time. Ever since the Liston fight he trained for contingencies - for having to stay on the ropes, for having to slug it out. People think he was a different fighter in Zaire and Manilla - the beautiful truth is more than anything that he just opened his toolbox to the full.

 

You're really overcomplicating things.

This are the simple facts: Ali won 2 out of 3. Being older and having more fights every time plus a long lay-off tha robbed him of his best years. How on earth can you get this to Frazier coming off the better?

 

I don't think Manfredo was out-classed but out-slapped.

I need a GIF here...

 

There is no way Vitali hits harder than Wladimir. Wladimir is a great one punch knockout artist in both fists. Vitali does not have one punch power. He is a wear you down type guy with attrition. Do you see Wlad's one punch power matching up better vs Frazier or Vitali's attrition? I favor the former rather than the ladder.