Why did Joe Frazier not fight Sonny Liston?

He stopped # 5 rated Henry Clark. Clark was young and 6'3 215lb, and highly rated by Ring Magazine. Is this considered world class for you?

 

Good win, sure. Proof he'd be that dangerous to fighter very deserving of being a top five all time heavyweight? I don't feel so.

 

Well, it is true that Clark never had a whole lotta' luck on the elite level...... Clark was good, but that's where it ends too....... Cheers.......

MR.BILL

 

This. :deal

 

Maybe true, but Liston was still a name that was good on a resume of a newbie fighter in the pro ranks...... Also, Liston was kickin' some ass on the club circuit following his '65 fiasco with Ali up in Maine....... Point is, "Frazier-Liston" in '68 would've sold and done well in a Vegas hotel in 1968 where MONEY could've been made....... Another point is, Cloverlay would've taken most of Frazier's purse and Liston's crooks would've taken most of his purse money....... Neither guy see's much cash afterward..... ARGH!
:bbb

MR.BILL

 

Actually, The Ring only had him rated at #9 at that time. It was the WBA that had him floating up in or near its top 5.

 

atschatsch

 

Certainly ! It would have been a needless high risk, for a low reward , little to gain and everything to lose.
Frazier was very cannily managed, up until he fought George.

 

This. :good
Even though Liston was old and faded, I think he still had enough left to be Frazier's toughest opponent pre-Ali and of course there's the stylistic advantage in Sonny's favour.
I'd pick Frazier to win this dangerous match-up against this version of Liston, but he wouldn't get enough credit for the win for it to be worth the risk.

 

Liston was still laying guys out and busting them up ... he was still a dangerous hitter and no manager of a up and coming young contender takes an everything to lose, nothing to gain fight ... Frazier would have likely done a number on the older, post Patterson Liston but it was a dumb match up for Yank to make ...

 

How would you say a man who fights a hard hitting, top 10 ranked contender in his 13th month as a pro is cannily managed ?

 

Let's take a look Chris.
Oscar Bonavena , not rated until the second half of 1966 ,and that on the basis of beating Chuvalo on a majority dec,Chuvalo had won 2 of his last 5 fights.
Billy Daniels 20-13-1 lost last 4
Memphis Al Jones 3-5-2
Chuck Leslie 9-4-1, really a LHVY
Don Smith 9-4-1
Charley Polite 3-4-1
Dick Wipperman 30-3-1,his wins were over pancakes.
Mel Turnbow a perennial sparring partner.6-3-0
Abe Davis 5-22-1 his record needs no explanation
Ray Staples 11-4-0, another LHVY,fattened up to 189 he lost 9 fights of his 19, all by ko.
Mike Bruce 4-1-0, he finished up l29,w10 kod 17times ,he dropped Frazier for 8.
Woody Goss 2-2 - 0, he was thrown out for impersonating an octopus.
Frazier was a Gold medal Olympian he was no tyro.
He was very cannily managed imo, His manager kept him out of the Tournament.
While Bonavena ,MIldenburger,Martin,Terell,Spencer,Patterson ,Quarry,and Ellis were squaring off against each other.


Frazier was meeting
Doug Jones
Marion Connor
Tony Doyle
George Scrap Iron Johnson
Jefferson Davis.and
George Chuvalo
It would be 2 years after the tournament before Frazier would face Quarry and co.
In Frazier's 19th fight he was in with Marion Connor ,who had been fighting as a LHVy and been stopped by 3 men under 175lbs.
In Ali's 29th fight, he was fighting Liston for the title.

 

I think for his 13th fight he was fighting tough guys ... who did Marciano fight in his 13th bout ? His 19th ?

 

He didn't have to. Liston was damaged goods after the 2nd Ali fight. Nobody wanted anything to do with him. I'm also fairly certain that he wa still considered to dangerous for young Quarry, Frazier, or Bonavena.

 

The question was his 13th month as a pro, not fight.
Marciano was not an Olympic gold medalist was he?
In the same sort of time scale as Frazier,Joe Louis was meeting Carnera,Ramage, Perroni,Levinsky,Brown ,and Baer.