Larry Holmes vs Sonny Liston

Also noted, Liston never did well with gifted boxers of good size and range.... Liston did KO boxers or walk them down for 10 rds in the past, but Liston normally was the heavier and stronger man in the ring when he did them things..... Back in '64, Clay / Ali was a smidge lighter but taller and faster than Liston..........

Larry Holmes fits into the mold of being taller and faster than Liston, while just a hair lighter between 209 to 213 PRIME pounds.......

Holmes was also much better at going longer durations before stopping his victims on a mass scale..........

I see "The Homer" battering Liston into defeat after 10 rds of action.......

MR.BILL

 

bill, keep in mind that this is a old Liston that isn't able to beat a near prime Muhammad Ali. when did he ever have trouble with fast
boxers to the point of Ali-Liston??
so why bother making that comparison. Ali wouldve got outboxed if he was 32 years old vs the 59' Liston.

 

The consensus was, Liston never beat a big, gifted & fast heavyweight before or ever in his career........ Eddie Machen was in the 190's and only around 6' tall.......... Patterson was even smaller than that........

Both Ali and Holmes could match Liston in every dept. and were also much faster than Liston ever was........

In my book, Holmes of 1980 easily beats Liston of 1960 in a time machine.......

MR.BILLhat:bbb:hi:

 

I quit when it comes a dead end. The start-up is always fun because you get wired up. And even then can't resist not responding. Always funny. And always seem to refer to past engagements even when a new topic comes up. Classic.

It's all there. Try to give a reasonable answer for how you came to that conclusion. I was wondering how you even reasoned that conclusion.

The discussion is there. You must've gotten so flustered to the point of not even reading my post because it did happen.

 

Like a moth to a flame. Can't get enough of me, I'm like your magnet.

Of course, I'm the one that's looking to be the upset one. Rankings are subjective, but deciding Nikolay Valuev is the GOAT is not. There are lines, and I'm just strongly against this new fond revamping of Liston's legacy. We have tons of great posters and historians, I don't remember Old Fogey or Chris ranking Liston that highly. I remember MuchMoore did (Don't remember where he want). In fact, Chris thought Rocky Marciano had a legitimately good chance against Liston. That's a minority position.

Now back to the discussion. While Holmes is not Ali, he's got the better jab and he's more technical. How can Liston deter his jab and boxing ability, and how does he deal with Holmes mobility? Liston admittedly was ponderous, and when he loses the battle of the jabs and can't get off punches how does he adapt? Does he get lucky? How does he cutoff Holmes movement (This is a matter of dealing with a younger Holmes. Or the more mature economical Holmes). Either way, he's in some trouble.

 

Good you posted up Ali-Williams.

Really shows how much Williams had gone down from age and the gunshot to the gut.

Better to look at Williams-Liston fights to see how much more faster Williams was at his prime.

 

That wouldn't be the end of it.

Holmes following the jab with the right is what would be the end of it.

Holmes by mid-round quittage.

 

Yes... A sobering point of view.....:good

MR.BILL:bbb

 

I rate Liston as a great overall fighter, but a lousy champion.......

Holmes was a great fighter and champion.......

MR.BILL

 

Kinda hard to be a great "champion" when

A. Your aging physically and the greatest heavyweight of all time is coming into his peak

B. You have already cleaned out your division pre title, and there isn't much left to accomplish


Holmes certainly did not clean out his era as much as Liston did. Holmes threw his belt in the trash rather than fight mandatory # 1 greg page, avoided unifying with # 1 rated Pinklon Thomas, never fought dokes or Coetzee, and never rematched Tim Witherspoon.

 

There was never a time when Liston "cleaned out" his division. This has been pointed out to you before. He never fought the best contender of his pre-title years (Johansson), and never beat the best contender of his title reign (Ali).

As far as what there was left to accomplish, there was the same that there is for every other champion that ever lived: beating your top contenders and extending your reign.

 

Also, just to conclude, Liston was NOT grossly outta shape at 218 pounds against Clay / Ali in 1964 as suggested...... YES! Liston was a bit heavy considering his prime-time weight was basically 212 pounds, but 218 was not gross looking on Liston down in Florida.......

Hell, Liston was only like 215 for the fiasco of '65 up in Maine.....

MR.BILL