"Arum Optimistic, De La Hoya says it's almost done, but Ariza beleives...

Really? When Mosley fought a "Pre-Margo" Cotto AT 147, not 145, they appeared to be pretty damn near the same level. Then Pac fights Cotto coming off a friggin ass whooping and makes him shed extra weight....while Mosley comes off a demolition of Margo and is able to fight at a comfortable weight.....and you think Cotto is levels above Mosley at those points????

 

mosley was gasping for air heavily after the 3rd round. of course credit to floyd but that is an indication that there is something wrong with him to tire in just 3 rounds of no too high paced action. as soon as mosley fights next and beat even a fighter of a caliber of clottey impressively, then i will say that all of these mosley getting tired too early was a result of floyd outboxing him and not by inactivity or age.

 

margo is a coming forward fighter and mosley is a strong puncher.. it ended up margo on the canvass.

dont overrate mosleys knockout on margo.

 

And what Cotto isn't a strong puncher??? I'm not overrating the knockout, all I'm saying is that the Mosley that fought floyd is on par with the Cotto that fought Pac

 

this :deal

 

i know what youre up to.. you would wanna mean that floyds win over mosley is better than pacs win over cotto.

cotto is a strong puncher yes but mosley is stronger.

 

Oh shut up :rofl I was comparing resumes and simply stating that Pacs win over Cotto is no more impressive then Floyds win over Mosley. Mosley was at the tail end of his career but still fighting at a top level, Cotto came off a terrible loss and then another questionable and tough decision over Clottey and had to shed extra weight.

 

Firstly, your reasoning re Pacquiao/Mosley does not constitute a 'duck'.
A deal was offered by Roach. It was not accepted by Mosley. Team Pacquiao sought another opponent in Cotto, who was a more credible and more lucrative opponent. Cotto accepted the catchweight deal. No ducking involved at all.

Secondly, your belief that Mosley was on par with Cotto seems to rely on a timeframe, during which Cotto suffered his first loss and Mosley achieved a relatively good win. This, in turn, leads to the higher P4P ranking and WW ranking. In other words, your entire argument rests on the one Cotto loss and the surprise Mosley win. You might consider that you have discredited Cotto further by dismissing his wins against Jennings and Clottey but you fail to balance this with the inactivity of Mosley during roughly the same time period.

Therefore, thirdly, what your argument fails to take into consideration is Mosley being 10 years past his prime and having been out of the ring for fifteen months since Margarito. Cotto still being within his relative prime and taking three bouts (Jennings, Clottey, Pacquiao) in the same space of time that Mosley was hanging around for his one bout (with Mayweather).

My fourth point is that your dismissal of Cotto's win over Clottey as a struggle belies the fact that Clottey has only ever legitimately lost to World Class opposition and was a Top-5 WW himself. Whether Mosley would have beaten Clottey or not is up for debate.

Finally, other than a single surprise victory, in a bout which had already been steeped in controversy, to the benefit of Mosley, before the first bell rang, Mosley had had an average to poor run of form for a far longer period than Cotto. Cotto had had an otherwise consistent run of form, which is what you would expect from a prime world class Fighter. Thus Mosley's stand-out but stand alone win, being preceded by average performances and then followed by a long period of inactivity, places his true rating at the time he faced Mayweather very much into question.

 

Dawg - You are clearly a Mayweather Fan Boy that is only interested in extracting as much positive bias in favour of your boy as possible. In my experience, it is impossible to have a sensible debate with people who are at such an advanced stage of delusion.

Ultimately, Cotto beat Mosley and if they ever met again, Cotto would most likely win again. If you cannot take into consideration the fact of Mosley's age, the fact he was 10 years past his prime and the fact that his overall form (not just the win over an 'unloaded' Margarito) reflected the previous two facts then you are not being reasonable.

 

Mosley didn't believe he could make 142 but he was so desperate for the fight that when they were in negotiations to fight Cotto that he offered to fight at 140.

Why didn't Roach offer Mosley the 145 catchweight rather than saying "there's not enough money and you're too good"?:huh

Surely if fighting for your legacy is what Pacquiao is about then fighting the #1 welterweight, the #3 P4P and someone who will be remembered higher than Cotto in the future would be a better opponent?

Every way you dress it up Mosley was thought of higher than Cotto, P4P list, WW rankings, you can even bring the ATG list into it and Mosley is more thought of.

You can say it's down to Cotto's loss and his following run of poor form but that is boxing, if we don't use form then what do we judge it on?

Where your argument fall down is you consider Mosley to be inferior because he was 10 years past his prime and you see Cotto relatively prime, to start with a prime Mosley was a far superior boxer to Cotto and prime Cotto's best win of his career was a narrow points victory over this past prime Mosley, since then one went 12 with Mayorga before knocking him out at 154 and then knocking out Margarito shortly after, the other fought some bum from a tv program, got stopped and then struggled to a points victory over Clottey.

Mosley's inactivity was down to nobody wanting to fight him and the cancellation of his fight with Berto, he wasn't hanging around for Mayweather at all.

The flip side of that is Clottey's only victory of note is over a past prime Judah.

So it's now a contest of who had the longest run of poor form? The difference between both fighters run of poor form is that Mosley had appeared to have pulled himself out of his by stopping the man at welterweight who had never been stopped previously, Cotto had shown nothing of the sort.

 

Isn't that so convenient for you, You never have to address the real argument because all you have to do is call someone a fanboy and move on. :good

Actually, yeah in this entire situation i have been very pro Mayweather, as opposed to Pac. But I wasn't always all mayweather and people on this site who have seen my posts for a long time know I have been very critical of Mayweather, up until probably around the Hatton fight.

The issue with Mosley and Cotto:
1. It is very debatable who would win a rematch.
2. The fight between them showed alot, and left alot unanswered.
3. The one thing the fight DID show is that no one fighter is that much better than the other.
4. Roach admittingly denied Mosley the chance to fight Pac, listing "he's too good" as his reason. But he fought Cotto at 145lbs because he knew it would adversely effect Cotto having to shed the extra weight AND there were HUGE questions of what Cotto had left mentally and physically after the Margo fight.
5. After Mosley destroyed Margo, he was undoubtedly in the top 10 P4P.
6. Mosley was viewed as one of, if not THE MOST dangerous fight for Floyd stylistically in boxing......over the past year, not 10 years ago only.
7. You cannot pick and chose when you want a fighter to be washed up now, Mosley after killing Margo and for the year leading up to the Mayweather fight was the top dog at welterweight, then Floyd whoops him and he is nothing, washed up, past it, an "easy fight".

I'm a Floyd Fanboy? Whatever you say chief, don't agree with me. Who are the ****ing clowns saying that Mosley wasn't on the same level as Cotto??? You and some other posters on here are, all I was saying is that the wins are comparable in merit. :deal

 

:rofl:rofl klingon

 

Whichever way you dress it up, Mosley wasn't 'Ducked' by Pacquiao. It is up for debate as to whether a 38 year old Mosley would have enriched a legacy more than a relatively prime Cotto, who had already beaten Mosley. I personally don't think it would but I understand why Mayweather Fan Boys would want to purport such an idea.

I haven't dressed it up at all. I have merely explained that Mosley held a subjective P4P ranking (in a Magazine that is owned by a company in which he is a partner) and a number 1 WW position based on a single Cotto loss and a single win of Mosley's. This is just a fact. In relation to your comment re Mosley and the ATG list, how is this relevant to the condition of Mosley when he faced Mayweather? It isn't.

If I follow your line of argument re the use of form then I am to believe that Carlos Baldomir suddenly became a top class Welterweight after his upset of Judah and, therefore, he presented the greatest Welterweight challenge to Mayweather in 2006. :huh

The above point starts out by stating that my argument falls down because I have pointed out that Mosley was 10 years past his prime with Cotto being relatively prime - you then go on to make a prime for prime comparison and then discuss their respective bouts leading up to Cotto/Pac and Mosley/FMJ. OK - A Prime for Prime comparison is irrelevant to the point under debate.

You blatantly overlook the potential effect that 15 months of inactivity between Mosley's win over Margarito and the Mayweather bout might have. Instead, you give explanations as to why the delay occurred - so what? How do the reasons for the delay have a bearing on Mosley's condition against Mayweather? The fact is he was inactive for 15 months and 15 months older by the time he met Mayweather.

You also bypass the aspect of Margarito's loaded gloves, which I alluded to in my previous post. So no - my argument hasn't fallen down because you have neither addressed any of the points I raised initially nor the point under debate, with anything you have brought forward here.

Does this change the facts I previously stated about Clottey? No. It doesn't. Pointless and typical Mayweather Fan Boy comment, designed only to extract the maximum in positive bias for their favourite.

No. It isn't a contest of the longest run of poor form. You miss the point entirely and retreat back to your fallback position, relying entirely on Mosley's victory over Margarito.

As I stated in my previous post, your argument hinges on this win and Cotto's loss. It is the sole basis for your position, which overlooks any relevant context.

Unfortunately - you are a classic case of a Mayweather Fan Boy and, given that it seems you are unable to keep your points relevant to the matter in question, i.e. the belief that the Mosley that faced Mayweather was on a par with the Cotto that faced Pacquiao, it seems futile to continue this discussion with you.

 

What a ****ing loser. If ****ers like Ariza and Roach from team Pacquiao would STFU I wouldn't hate on Pac as much as I do. I think if Pacquiao was the one doing the talking and keeping **** simple and with nice personality like he always does, he would have a much better reputation around the *****s and boxing fans. Because I know he is a good person, but his team makes me sick.

 

No. It's not a matter of convenience. It is more a case of seeing the familiar pattern of inference made by Mayweather fans, which invariably overlooks core assumptions and key pieces of evidence in order to place their boy in a favourable light. It's clear you side with Team Mayweather, no matter what lengths you have to go to. Only a Fan Boy would go to such lengths.

For example, why is the result of a potential Cotto/Mosley rematch "very debatable? How have you come to that conclusion?

Your point 2 is subjective opinion, without any support for why you hold it.

Your point 3 relates to the nature of a bout that took place in 2007. How does this relate to the condition of each of the Fighters in 2010?

Point 4 is an example of how a Mayweather fan will forage for scraps, in terms of quotes placed out of context and the incomplete piecing together of events, wringing every last drop out of them - just to make a point in Mayweather's favour.

All other roads seem to inevitably lead to the Mosley/Margarito bout, an unwillingness to accept it as a one-off, against the general run of form and refusal to acknowledge that Mosley was ancient when he finally met Mayweather, having had 15 months of inactivity.

I don't need a list of unsupported opinions, incomplete quotes and irrelevant stats to form and support my opinions.

I use common sense, the laws of nature and what I witness with my own eyes Chief! You should try it some time.