If there hadn't been the colour line in the 1910s and 1920s?

Wills broke his arm against Jim Johnson. I wouldn't call that getting "stopped".

 

I suppose so. But you are not really one of the common boxrec warriors are you?

Do you think Vitali got stopped by Byrd?

Wills arm certainly did seem to heal pretty quick, so i am sure it is only a matter of time before his heart starts to become questioned.

 

It's been questioned on this Forum before
.I think Wills may be a trifle overated, prime for prime, I think Dempsey smokes him.
I am not positive that Wills even beats the Willard of Havana.

Burns and Hart do not win the crown.
Prime for prime, I think Johnson beats all the black challengers, if he retains focus and condition.
There is some speculation that the Smith win over Langford was a tank job, I do not have a clue on this ,but it does seem strange that Langford so emphatically reversed the result,and so relatively quickly.[11months]

The real beneficiary,as I see it ,and Janitor has mentioned him ,is Peter Jackson, I think he beats an old Sullivan ,and Corbett does not win the title.
Tunney beats both Wills and Godfrey imo, the man who might have turned the trick against the Marine , if he was on form, was Sharkey imo.But, it is a big if .
I am not even positive that Wills would beat the Willard of Havana.

 

the fact that dempsey emphatically refused to face wills for 7 years to the point where he was willing to allow his new york boxing license get revoked speaks more to me than conjecture. if dempsey and his handlers thought he could smoke wills they would have fought him in 1920 and gotten him out of the way.

 

Your opinion on this subject , has many supporters.
However, in 1920 Wills , met Andrew Johnson 2-3-0. Ray Bennett a tyro novice, whose performance was so abject he was banned from boxing forever.Jack Thompson x2 , both had their purses withheld in one of these.Thompson's record was 11-5-3.
A good performance over Fred Fulton ,stopping him in 3 rds.
Unfortunately ,Dempsey had blasted Fulton out in 23 seconds, 2 years earlier.
A win over a fat, 37 year old, half blind Sam Langford.

And last, a debacle against Sam Mcvey , during which both men were tossed out and banned forever from fighting in Philadelphia.

In short very well chewed meat ,and nothing there for Dempsey to lose sleep over imo.
That year Dempsey stopped Miske, and Brennan .

 

In the scenario outlined, I suspect that Wills might be the imcumbant, then he has to decide whether he will risk his title against Dempsey.

 

Judging by the quality of Wills opposition, in 1920 that is by no means a given,imo.

 

Exactly, if he was so sure he could beat him (as he was when he faced a dying Miske... a fact Dempsey readily admits HE KNEW MISKE WAS ILL AND DYING, and Brennan who he had already beaten once and who had lost 4 out of 4 fights within the last year and half to Harry Greb and managed to NOT WIN A SINGLE ROUND... and still nearly lost to Brennan.) You can pick it apart any way you like it. You can argue that Wills was marking time and sitting on his status as a top contender but you can just as easily argue that Dempsey was marking time and sitting on his title, which is worse...

 

The colour line was a complicated thing though.

I don't think for example that Sullivan or Jeffries were afraid of all the top black contenders theyr refused to fight.

It was an issue of principle for many.

 

I suppose it depends on whether you rate Dempsey highly or not, I do, but I can see the reverse of the coin.
I think Miske "dying" ,has been," over- egged " , through the years .
After being kod by Dempsey, the "dying ", Miske had a further 23 fights ,over another 3 years winning all but one of them losing only to Gibbons,whom he also decisioned.Miske scored 12 kos in these and he was facing good opposition ,certainly better than those Wills was meeting.
Renault[ko]+ 1 dec
Gibbonsx2
Brennan[ ko]+1 dec
Roperx3
Weinert
Smith [1rd ko]
Meehan[ ko]
Fulton[1 rd ko]

He was hardly at "deaths door" when Dempsey beat him,as his subsequent resume proves. 22 wins from 23 fights, against contenders, and fringe contenders is a substantial record, imo.

 

If you knew anything about Brights disease you could see how all of this could be possible.

 

This topic is older than dinosaur ****, and it basically boils down to one of two arguments, so take your pick...

Argument #1 - If blacks had been allowed to fight for the title, they would have dominated.

Argument # 2 - Race means nothing, and the dominant white champs of the day would have beaten the best blacks regardless..

As for who would have held the title???????????

 

Not sure if Jackson gets title shot vs Sullivan, Corbett does not become champ later down the line, Jackson was slipping by that point, and he did fight a 61 round draw with Corbett. Maybe next time with the title on the line, Corbett may have nab the title. Who knows.

 

It's a crime Peter Jackson did not get a title shot vs John L Sullivan and James Corbett. Sullivan blantatly ducked him. Said so "I never fought a negro, and I never shall". Corbett was even more blantant. he said something along the lines of "Jackson is the best I have ever fought, I never want to fight him again".

 

Well Jackson and Corbett did fight a 61 round war about. It had nothing to do with color imo.