Who has better footwork: Liston or Louis?

ARGH this is such a ****ing myth. There was nothing wrong with Louis' footwork at all; it was text-book. He cut the ring off effectively against mover after mover - Ramage, Pastor, Conn, Walcott - yet people keep claiming he was this slow plodder, etc. Louis may have had trouble with speed. Footwork is different.

 

Now, Liston's footwork was poor.

 

Liston regularly got off balance, even after throwing the jab (!), falling in for instance. He often took big plodding steps rather than maintaining balance with smaller ones, which is a recipe for getting out-timed. He didn't really utilise his legs when punching as much as the likes of Louis or Tyson, either, if you class that as footwork.

 

Something that hasn't been mentioned here is that Louis suffered far more flash KDs. Knock downs that primarily seemed to be down to him being off balance rather than being hurt.

 

Are you serious? You're saying that falling in, leaving yourself wide open in range for an opponent to take his pick of shots to counter you with, and not being able to follow up, is an advantage in any way? I think that needs some explanation.

Well, he might have had more luck in timing Ali had he not been so easy to catch off-balance, not setting his feet in time.

I may well be wrong, and it's always difficult to judge things this subtle from film, but it looks to me like he's using the upper body more than anything here, apart from when throwing the right hand.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbp8kvRaaMk&feature=fvw[/ame]

 

Just re- watched it ,courtesy of Mcgrain .
Liston shows faster hand and foot speed ,than in his later fights.
Now.
Rd 3 .Liston misses 2 right crosses and 1 left hook ,and is badly off balance ,and momentarily vulnerable to counters.

Rd7. Off balance after missing a right cross.

Rd8 ditto.
A faster, heavier puncher, could have made him pay for that.

Rd 9.Whitehurst is badly shaken by a right cross and in danger of being stopped 15 seconds -10seconds he is in distress.Liston has no clue how to corner him and apply the quietus.

Rd 10.30 seconds in Liston lands big with a right cross a tiring Whitehurst is in imminent jeopardy, he tries to retreat to the ropes, Liston follows.
Whitehurst collects himself somewhat and returns to ring centre.
Whitehurst gamely hangs on.

Liston at no time, cuts the ring off, he follows Whitehurst.
Whitehurst ,early into the 1st rd ,establishes his" querencia", a 5 ft circle in ring centre.

Sound tactics ,against a bigger, stronger, harder hitter.

Basically Whitehurst, moves clockwise away from Listons potent left hook.
Probably why he was tagged twice with big right crosses.

The two times Liston really connects with" money shots", he allows Whitehurst to escape, and reclaim ,ring centre.
Had it been Joe Louis in there with Whitehurst,I feel he would have herded him into the corner and finished the job.
Louis was not extravagant with his foot work ,he was economical ,but effective,he understood the geometry of the ring very well.
Louis knew how to back you up,as did Liston,but Louis backed you into the ropes, and trapped you in the ring corners, he subtly manouvered his opponents into restricted areas of space Liston never did

Suzie,I am a big Lliston fan ,but his" feet of clay" was just that , his feet.

He is adequately fast enough ,for a man 212lbs, it is the lack of lateral movement that is his" achilles heel".
Liston's protege, Foreman matched up pretty evenly with the Mk 1 model , but had one glaring superiority,his ability to cut off the ring.

 

I agree.

 

Attributable to him being slighter of frame than the brick house (not many heavies that aren't) and less of a constant bully than Sonny, more of a patient predator, so it was more rare for Liston's victims to be brave or stupid enough to trade with him, while many of Joe's were (some even clung desperately to it as a strategy), but a good observation all the same.

Sonny also probably had better head movement by the same margin that Joe had better footwork.

 

Liston's footwork was not good. Louis' was better. Both lacked a little bit of foot-speed. Louis was purposely more economically. Liston was more ploddy even when trying to be fast.

 

Louis had better footwork for me. Louis always seemed to be on balance through the duration of his combinations. Louis was a great puncher in combination and that can be partly attributed to his superior footwork keeping him on balance and in position to deliver.