Larry Holmes vs Sonny Liston

...but still great.

No, he beat a prime Floyd Patterson, one of the most obviously vulnerable and heavily criticized heavyweights to hold the title.

No he didn't. You're just resorting to your usual habit of making vague and unverifiable claims when you can't actually prove anything.

So because Liston had quit before the fight began, that somehow makes it less embarrassing? :huh

No more than Liston's were when he lost decisively to Marty Marshall and Leotis Martin.

 

Ali was on the level up in Maine, but Liston went into the tank.......... Ali's "Anchor" punch landed, but with little force...... A rugged mother like Liston normally would walk through a tap like that....... Liston dived.......

MR.BILL

 

Your actually comparing liston losses in his 7th pro fight, and (when he was 39 years old/ a tire around his midsection/in his last year of fighting)...to Foreman at age 28, in his prime years coming off big wins over lyle and frazier? That is preposterous.

You see unlike foreman, Liston in his prime could actually beat the A level slick defensive boxers of his era(Folley and Machen).

I wouldn't say he had quit in him. He was simply following orders and doing what he was told to do.

Foreman actually beat the count of 10 against Ali...yet he just walks back to his corner..no protest no nothing. He was beaten mentally. He fought the dumbest fight in history of boxing.


Liston was just as powerful and strong as george, difference is liston was much more well rounded and skilled scientifically than foreman.

Floyd Patterson is an ATG hall of Famer. he has some of the best combination of Speed/Power/ Technique the division has ever seen. His combination punching ranks up near the top in history. He was heavyweight champion for 6 years and ranked in the Ring Magazine for 15 straight years!

Joe Frazier was fat, and uninterested by 1973.

 

What "orders"? Can we see a copy of them please?

Which means he didn't quit.

Irrelevant to whether or not he "quit".

Difference also is he had much less heart, and was less accomplished and proven.

Not as a heavyweight.

None of which makes his flaws any less obvious, his reign any less unimpressive, or the criticism of him any less widespread.

You could say the same about Foreman when he lost to Young, but you selectively choose not to.

 

The only thing / things Liston might edge Holmes in is, the left-hook and power........ Other than that, Holmes takes every other category........

MR.BILL

 

When Patterson won the HW Title he was the youngest HW Champ ever. When he won the HW Title again he became the first 2x HW Champ. He went 8-6 (8KO) in HW World Title Fights. It's hard not to rate him at HW. He was down more than any other HW Champ (20 times) but he often got up and stopped whoever knocked him down.

His draw and loss to Quarry were close and both could have went either way. Their 2nd fight was part of a WBA tournament for the vacant title... eventually won by Jimmy Ellis.

His loss to Ellis (for the WBA HW Title) was close and could have went either way as well. A win over Ellis would have made him the first 3x HW World Title Holder BTW.

Patterson was a little bit past prime in the fights vs. Quarry x2 and Ellis.

Patterson beat Johansson 2 out of 3 (LKOby3, KO5, and KO6).

He was stopped by Liston twice (LKOby1 x2).

He was also stopped by Ali twice (LKOby12 and LKOby7). Patterson was pretty well past his best days when he fought Ali for a 2nd time, 1972. He never fought again.

Patterson was robbed at LHW vs. Joey Maxim (L8) in his 14th pro fight. He also beat Yvon Durelle at LHW (W8 and KO5). At HW he beat all-time great LHW Archie Moore (KO5) for the vacant HW Title.

 

My pick is Holmes btw.

 

Agree about the reach assessment. Holmes (IMO) would be able to land his jab followed by the right and take care of Liston inside the distance.

 

Well, until you actually gather some evidence to the contrary..accept the fact Liston had an 84" reach.

Rly? Liston's going to make it that simple? You make it sound like Holmes was some dominating force. Makes me wonder why he struggled so much with Norton, Weaver, Witherspoon, Williams, Snipes.

 

watch liston-williams 1
williams had an 80"reach,listons arms are clearly longer.add to that broad shoulders and big hands,definitely 84"

 

I agree myself........ Liston never looked like a lanky freak with a true 84" wingspan at only 6' 1" tall......

Christ, Tommy Hearns is 6' 1" tall and with a 78" wingspan and looks freaky with his long arms.....

:think:bbb

MR.BILL