Larry Holmes vs Sonny Liston

Liston was only down 3 times in his entire career...
Holmes was down twice against Tyson, once against shavers, and I think against someone else..
So they each got knocked down 3 times as far as I know...
If it is better, then that is VERRY marginal. They both had great chins.

 

The Marty Marshall knockdown might have been a slip. Liston's glove touched the canvas, but I don't think any of his other body part's did. It was a flash kd. Holmes got floored by a big right hand from kevin issacs, don't forget that.

 

I wish we could get a film of that fight.
So then it's quite possible it's liston with the better chin :good

 

"Homer" never went out like a bulb from a single blow like Liston did against "Ali and Martin."
bbb

MR.BILL

 

Yup,
but the Ali fight was probably a fix, too controvisal to assume anything except Liston was aging and he didn't have the heart anymore,
and with Martin, he was already shot, and not himself anymore.
Holmes always got up, that shows his heart. Yeah, he has way more heart then Liston, but not a better chin.

 

I don't think most of what you've posted here actually supports this point; and if anything I'd say it proves the opposite.

For example:

These are indeed two distinguished records here; but they're also counterbalanced by some very infamous records that Patterson made as well - like being down more than any other HW champ, being the first HW to be twice KO'd in 1 in title fights, or being the first champ ever to defend his title against an amateur boxer.

I don't see how that's a particularly impressive achievement in itself; it means that he was just slightly better than 50-50 in title fights. It's even less impressive when you consider that he defended his title several times against mid- and lower-tier contenders, and once against a fighter who had never even had a pro fight.

That still doesn't make his KD record any less embarrassing; and it's made even more embarrassing by the fact that he was down against fighters like Roy Harris and Rademacher, who didn't really even deserve shots at his title in the first place.

What does it mean to only be on par with Quarry and Ellis level fighters, though? Neither of them were genuine great HWs either. The genuine great HWs they did fight, like Ali and Frazier, slaughtered them, even when they were past their primes as well.

This means that he lost 3 out of 5 against the only two truly respected punchers he defended his title against, and all three losses were by embarrassing quick KOs.

Even giving him credit for "beating" Maxim, this still shows that most of his best performances were at or against LHWs - which indicates that he was likely a great LHW but not necessarily a great HW.

 

Floyd was past his prime when these fights took place. I think the Floyd of the late 1950s beats these guys handily.

 

Even so, the great HWs like Ali and Frazier weren't always in their primes when they fought them either, but they still were much better than them.

 

True. But I don't think anyone is comparing Patterson to top 10 ATG's like Ali and Frazier. He is a tier below, amongst the top 20 all time in my judgement.

 

oh yeah, and holmes went down against BUTTERBEAN, come on, Liston would have ripped that guy up, even the leotis Martin version.

 

I think Floyd did beat Ellis quite handily.

 

Holmes was 75/76 years old when they fought!

 

Yeah, and who knows How old Liston was against Martin :verysad

 

Liston was NOT age 50 like some jackasses' suggest....... In my best world of guessing I say Liston was born anywhere between 1928 thru 1932..... At the most, Liston was age 41 against Leo Martin in '69......
bbb

MR.BILL:hat

 

?
Who knows how old he was?
he certainly LOOKED a lot older then 41.
I think he may have been closer to 45 against Martin. That actually sounds a lot more reasonable because he declined a lot.