Decade tourney Rnd 2 - 70s v 2000s

Muhammad Ali UD Lennox Lewis & Klitschkos
Bob Foster KO Roy Jones Jr
Carlos Monzon UD Benard Hopkins
Ray Leonad UD Shane Mosley
Roberto Duran TKO Floyd Mayweather jr
The other ones I'm not going to comment on because I don't know much on them.

 

Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali vs

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(or Klitchskos). ithis is the 70's Ali? Early in the decade i'd still say Muhammad can outmaneuvre him and isn;t getting stopped so he wins, but later on in the decade, regardless of his nouse, Lennox would beat him imo, too good. I'll take Lennox over an on average Ali in the 70's

Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster v

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sorry, he might get beheaded but i'm picking him

Middleweight: Carlos Monzon v

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, he's probably the only one i pick over him

Welterweight:

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v Shane Mosley i actually think he's got a very good chance of stopping him

Lightweight:

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v Floyd Mayweather Jr, you know me

Featherweight:

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v Manny Pacquiao, now Pac has a fine chance of putting in a performance somewhat similar to Harada's, but the hell that Jofre put Harada through at stages is good enough to get him a win here imo, i had Marquez beating Pac at 126 also, by hitting him with all accurate stuff and even outmaneuvring him, which isn't JMM's strength at all, i like Jofre

Bantamweight:

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v Rafael Marquez, Marquez is a fighter i rate highly at this weight for ability, but whether he boxes or fights, it's his nature to open up on Olivares, i don't see it working for him

Flyweight:

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v Wonjongkam, again, as above, i rate the loser highly, but i just see Canto offsetting his good work, scoring all the while, and taking a decision, Canto is very possibly the greatest at the weight

 

I'll get some flack here for favouring the elder lemons, but here go's anyway. I've tried (though probably failed) to be objective.

Ali decisions Lewis IMO, but an argument can be made for Lewis nonetheless. I just think Lennox was too hittable personally. Can't see him outboxing Muhammad, which leaves him having to knock him out, which I also can't see. Good fight though.

I'm confident that Foster KO's Jones. Sickeningly. Even if Jones is evasive for a time. Roy just didn't face any great ring generals or elite boxer-punchers at 175 for me to pick him over a nightmare like Foster.

Monzon edges a close but clear decision over Hopkins in an ugly fight with lots of clinching and dirty tactics and a low punch connection rate. Not one I'd enjoy watching.

Can't see any feasible argument for Mosley beating Leonard. He might be tough enough to last the distance and make Leonard work, but he still gets beat up IMO. Too open and lacking technically to prevent Ray from taking control at mid-range and having things his own way.

Duran beats Mayweather handily, although probably while not looking his best if Mayweather does the Usain-Bolt-moving-backwards thing he did against Castillo that will probably allow him to last the distance. Though if Duran lands the type of right hand that Mosley did, I'm not so sure that Mayweather gets off nearly as lightly in the follow-up exchanges.

I still like the old Jofre against the green, wild swinging featherweight version of Pacquiao. He'd slowed down but was as tough as ever and could still hit through the eye of a needle with full power and hard enough to stop Pacquiao, though it would still be competitive and interesting.

A prime Olivares stops Marquez, but I reckon Rafa might have a better chance here than many would give him, being a good powerful boxer-puncher with the fizz to make Olivares think twice.

From the limited amount of Wonjongkam I've seen, I'd say that Canto decisions him. Good fighter but not quite in Canto's class.

 

Manny Pacquiao would beat jofre, pong would beat canto. The rest would be in the 70's favour.

 

Heavyweight: Muhammed Ali vs Lennox Lewis

I think this kinda resembles Valuev vs Holyfield. Ali would be circling looking to dart in and fire off quick shots and getting back out. Lewis would be looking to keep it long and behind the jab. I like Ali's speed of hand and foot here rather than Lewis's size and timing.

Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster v Roy Jones Jr

Jones might get a lead but as soon as Foster lands clean it is over.

Middleweight: Carlos Monzon v Bernard Hopkins

A close tactical affair with both men nullifying each others work at times. I think Monzon is slightly better in some aspects that Hopkins like to have controll on: controlling the distance and tempo.

Welterweight: Ray Leonard v Shane Mosley

No need to explain.

Lightweight: Roberto Duran v Floyd Mayweather Jr

Duran can follow the 'blueprint' drawn by Stonehands89, get in rough Mayweather up to the body then get the right hand off. Hes going to be inside battling, thats his best way of getting it done IMO. Wearing Floyd down and opening up his defence.

Featherweight: Eder Joffre v Manny Pacquiao

Jofre is very precise with his hard punches and can like Marquez counterpunch Pacquiao as he comes inside with hard right hands and bring in the left hook. Because of the power of Jofre you really have to consider a stoppage here.

Bantamweight: Rueben Olivares v Rafael Marquez

But it is tougher than people think, Rafa is a very strong Bantamweight and hits hard enough to keep Ruben honest. I like Ruben to use a bit more of his boxing here, leading Rafa on to hard counters, nice changes of angles, and could probably grind Rafa down in this way.

Flyweight: Miguel Canto v Wonjongkam

Wonjongkam is quite awkward for defensive specialists IMO, his long gangly arms and relaxed way of punching could be quite hard to avoid at times and the fact he hits hard adds to the woes, but Canto is good enough to like Naito get under those arms bring in some shots form underneath and generally make Pongsaklek miss.

 

Is there any weightclass where pacquiao will ever be picked to beat an atg?

 

Yes, but Jofre is a terrible match up for him.

 

I hear that phrase all the time. Chavez is a bad matchup for him, sanchez is a bad matchup for him, arguello is a bad matchup for him.

When it comes to resume, jofre is actually the lesser fighter. People love to praise old timers on most occasions, but comparing pac and jofre, pac definetly beat the better fighters.

Be honest, name 5 atg from 122-140 that you would pick pac to beat. He is so underrated on this forum, its just hilarious.

 

Big upset but i'm picking Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko to beat the 70's Ali. The 60's Ali was quicker and would probably use movement and speed to a decision, but the 70's Ali could only do that for 5-6 rounds - he never decisively bested Norton, who is a farcry from Lewis/Klitschko. Still a great fighter of course, but i think a peak Lewis (1997 vs McCall II) / Wlad (vs Byrd II 2006 or since it's Ali, vs Byrd in 2000 when he had sick speed). Not counting Ali out by the way, he may well win, but i'd favor said boxers.

Incidentally, while I think Lewis is superior to Wlad, I think Wlad matches up better with Ali. His more measured approach of staying behind his slightly better jab consistently might fit well to beat Ali. I haven't mentioned Vitali because i think he does not match well with Ali and would pick him to lose.

Foster may win by knockout, but my problem with him is that he looked great against mediocre opponents, but never beat a solid, good opponent in or near his prime. I'm not talking a great one, but just a very good one. Jones dominated both Hopkins and Toney with surprising ease. Before he was 35, no one ever talked about his chin, in fact, he suffered only one (flash) knockdown in his entire career prior to that.

Note that all of Jones' LHW opponents weighed around 185-190lbs on fight night, and would qualify as heavyweights in Foster's time, like Doug Jones who knocked Foster out.

I'm picking Jones by decision although both can win by knockout.

Monzon was amazing in every aspect. Everything looked decent but everything was great. Hopkins is a formidable opponent, but I believe Monzon will find a way to win and beat the bigger man.

Leonard at welterweight was an animal and there are very, very few in history i'd pick over him. Mosley would be outsped, outpunched, outworked, outboxed. Mosley is a huge hitter but can be outboxed. Plus, Leonard has a great jaw.

Incidentally, perhaps Dela Hoya or Trinidad were better welterweights, but I'd still pick Leonard over both without hesitation.

Going against the grain here again. For many it's blasphemy to pick anyone over Duran, but so be it. Buchanan was a fine boxer and gave Duran plenty to think about... Mayweather is better than him so it's certainly not unreasonable to pick him. Others will say, and rightfully so, that Castillo gave Mayweather Hell and Duran is like him, but better. True.. but it should also be noted that Floyd injured his hand and basically fought without his right from round 6 on. He proved the validity of this claim in the rematch, when he won comfortable on points.

Gonna leave these to the experts.

 

Heavyweights: Muhammad Ali vs Lennox Lewis

Tough one for me to call, if it was a prime '67 Ali I'd edge towards him over a '99 Lewis. Seeing as both as are unavailable, if we're talking the '71 Ali against a 2000 version of Lewis, I think Lennox might be able to scrape a decision. I think Ali was really struggling with the jab by then, if we take into account the Ernie Terrell fight - a guy with an excellent jab - Ali was able to counter-act it with his movement. By the early '70's, as evidenced in the FOTC, his legs had deserted him a little bit. I think he really struggles with Lewis if he turns it into a jabbing match and drops a close decision. Lennox UD.

Light-Heavyweights: Bob Foster vs Roy Jones Jr

Another tough one. Again I don't feel I can call on prime versions, and simply because of that, I feel Jones gets caught at some point and finished off. Foster TKO/KO 8-9.

Middleweights: Carlos Monzon vs Bernard Hopkins

Wow. What a tough fight to call again. Hopkins does a lot of good things that can nulify Monzon's strengths, however, if Monzon's punch output is high, I feel he to can nulify Hopkins and wear him down with his strength and precise punching. I'll take Monzon by a very close decision.

Welterweights: Ray Leonard vs Shane Mosley

The first easy match-up to call. No real need for explanation, Leonard is better at everything Mosley does plus more. Leonard UD, possibly TKO late on.

Lightweights: Roberto Duran vs Floyd Mayweather

Even as a Mayweather fan, Duran wins this one. Educated pressure behind an under-rated jab, difficult to connect cleanly and so he smothers Floyd and out-works and out-lands him, possibly leading to a late stoppage.

Featherweights: Eder Jofre vs Manny Pacquiao

I'd feel far more confident in a primer version of Jofre, but I still feel a 70's version had enough to beat a still flawed Pacquiao. Hard, precise, quick combinations, a strong chin and an excellent, draining body attack spells the end for Manny. Manny's best chance would be to smother Jofre's work, but he didn't have the jab of Harada to keep Jofre out-of-rhythm. Jofre stoppage mid-rounds.

Bantamweights: Ruben Olivares vs Rafael Marquez

I'm a huge fan of Marquez so I pick him to be very competitive hear, but I just feel that he'll trade left hooks with Olivares like he so often did with Vazquez and get taken out. Olivares stoppage 7-9.

Flyweights: Miguel Canto vs Pongsaklek Wonjongkam

Pong is an awkward match-up as Greg said earlier, but Canto is busy enough to prevent Pong getting into gaining any real sort of strangehold and wins a clear decision.

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7-1 to the 70's side, which is a flattering scoreline in the end and unfair. I came perilously close to picking both Jones and Hopkins, and these are all close, close match-ups for me bar Leonard vs Mosley.

 

Those guys are bad matchups for him though, technically sound counterpunchers (when they wanted to be)

Pacquiao's achievements far out way his actual H2H ability, what is wrong with that? I rate Pacquiao higher than most here and would not hesitate to put him in a top 20 list.

5 greats he would beat

Marco Antonio Barrera (I knwo he beat him but even in MAB's prime he beats him)
Sugar Ramos
Alfredo escalara
Edwin Rosario
Niccolino Locche

But Buchanan and Mayweather stylistically arnt too alike, sure they are both boxers but it is an awful broad term. Buchanan used much more foot movement and worked behind a solid jab. Mayweather was much more athletic and was more of a counter-puncher.

And what problems did you think Buchanan gave Duran?

 

I would go with all the 70s boys here except for the Jofre-Pac fight. Remember, this is at 126 when Jofre was 37. I just don't see him, even with his marvelous skills, holding off the whirlwind attack at that age. I see Jofre fading down the stretch enabling Pac to cop a decision.

Scartissue

 

The problem is with Pacquiao, he is split into two different versions. We see a quality version today, but against other top quality welterweights, he is going to be often matched in skill and out-sized.

In the lower divisions, we saw a guy who was flawed in many ways. I myself feel that super-featherweight was his best division. Not as flaws as he was at super-fly or super-bantam etc, and not out-sized.

 

The hunchback would be lucky to see the half-way mark in tact against Jones.