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Hah, I just happened to re-read the Jeffries-Corbett II chapter today during lunch. I think in a way weight issues also had a play. Ryan liked Jeffries in a crouch cause Jeff didn't like body shots, but that slowed Jeffries down. So he tried to get him light to get him faster. But ironically (at least it seems to me) going light made Jeffries less strong and maybe a bit more susceptible to the body shot. One thing that struck me, in the account of Jeffries-Corbett II, was that Jeffries didn't worry about the weight (he was with Delany by then), didn't even know what he came in at, but fighting up-right he was a lot faster than previously; and though Corbett planned to target the body and, by nes accounts, actually did get a lot of heart punches over, they didn't seem to much bother the less-light Jeffries. -------- Jeffries-Fitzsimmons: Fitzsimmons initial hit-n-run tactics caused Jeffries to leave his crouch. Standing up in the third round, he took more facial punishment (though his nose was already bleeding), but was able to pursue Fitzsimmons well enough that Fitz perforce had to fight Jeffries off. Fitzsimmons was observed to tire after round five. Jeffries facial damage was the more visible, but experienced observers realized that Jeffries body blows were taking a toll. Though Fitzsimmons was realized to be tiring, the KO in the eighth was none the less unexpected. One thing that comes through reports is there was much curiosity as to whether Fitzsimmons would show rust, and a consensus that he had shown great form. Jeffries later said that the ring they fought in was unsuitable for heavyweights, took away half his speed and made his foot-work akward. Pollack was unable to find contemporary mention of this, but did say it was a new ring; so it might have had some quirks. If this is true, it may be part of the reason Jeffries looked so much faster in Corbett II than in Fitzsimmons II. -----------
Very good. I thoroughly agree that Jeffries countinued to improve with every fight, until Johnson obviously. What degree do you think Tommy Ryan impacted the quality of Jeffries boxing, and even his style? He seems to have been a serious influence at the very least.
Tommy Ryans influence was huge, and probably took Jeffries in directions that he would never otherwise have gone. He might have miscast Jeffries to some extent, by working on his boxing ability at the expense of his offensive faculties. He guided him to a textbook title winning performence against Bob Fitzsimmons, but nearly lost him the title against Cobbett.
You can understand this stressing though, given Jeffries early reputation...a reputation that's persisted until today, despite Tommy's best efforts.
John L Sullivan ****ed a kangaroo. The kangaroo gave birth to Jeffries. Then Jeffries ****ed Fitzsimmons sister. Who then gave birth to Charlie Chaplin.
To be honest, I think the idea that Jeffries was crude is partialy a modern construct. Even early in his career, you can find one or two observers praising his technique for every one that said he was crude. By the time Jeffries retired he was thought to be nigh on invincible, and I can understand why. It wasn't just that he was 20 lbs heavier and much stronger than any other contender around, it was thought that there was verry little seperating him from the best technicians in terms of science. The best punchers couldn't hurt him, and the best boxers could barely outbox him.
Jimmy Jeff was an athlete outside the ring and owned good movement with his legs in training, but as a fighter he seemingly was more of a stalker who looked to walk his man down...... Since the films are crude, I'm not 100% sold on whether or not Jeff used all his god given talent in the ring.... Well, I'm headin' over to my bro's ranch for dinner and I'll prolly drink myself into a state of stupafaction before the night is through.... Cheers..... MR.BILL
I'm not as widely read as you in this area, but i have done some bits and bobs, and always, always, always, there is a caveat in these remarks as I have seen them. So he will be labelled a good technician "for a man of his size" or "considering his last performance" or "given his experience" or some such. I think Jeffries was crude when he turned professional. And really, Janitor, why wouldn't he be? No storied am career, are we to believe he was some kind of savant - and that that somehow went unreported? I don't believe it. Yeah. I'm basically alone in the forum in seeing him as being more highly regarded upon his retirement than Sullivan was before Corbett saw to him.