Who has better footwork: Liston or Louis?

I think Louis is going to be the clear choice here...at least he should be...in my opinion.

 

Thank you for the 101 version you likely read in a comic book. Now show some game and elaborate twat.

 

Neither had good footwork, but Liston's range was superior. I would say Liston was better laterally, and Louis was marginally faster moving back and forth.

 

From what I've seen Louis didn't use much movement when fighting inside, did Liston? I llike fighters who use their feet a lot to get angles when in-fighting, like Frazier and Holyfield for example.

 

McGrain would disagree with you. He says Liston doesn't need to have lateral motion. He says his physical limitations (Slow-feet) won't allow it which is why Liston jabs and launches at his opponents. I say that's complete bull**** personally. Liston used his physical advantages (Use his 84 inch reach and jab) so he perhaps never learned about cutting off the ring because he often dominated opponents and got away with it... or maybe he was never taught. Once he couldn't rely on these huge physical advantages because he foot a fleet-footed, fast, and graceful fighter he floundered. Had he used some lateral motion he could've at least gotten boxer-movers and Ali at least closer to the ropes instead of following him around and trying to jab at Ali from center of the ring.

Real shame, because Ali tended to back up while Liston chased at him. Had Liston used lateral motion to try corner him closer to the ropes than he might've had some chance to get off more. Ali did a great job of using lateral motion, but sometimes he had a bit of habit of pulling back when he was being attacked, especially when he was being jabbed at.

I agree with you. Of course Liston didn't have the fastest feet but this would've helped. McGrain seems to think Liston did what was best for him. Even if it goes against boxing rudiments or strategy. Liston was effective because he could get away with it. It's not a coincidence that he was effective because his best option to do what he did. Jones Jr could've benefited from doing things a little differently but he could get away with it. Later down the line, him not knowing effected him greatly (He always was going to never be the same fighter without speed, legs, and reflexes, though. We're talking to an extent).

 

:-((

 

Like I said, the guy is an instigating tool .. in addition, knows nothing about the sport .. so fun and easy to push his buttons ..

 

Machen/Folley were fleet footed with quick hands and he beat them both, some think the ALi that beat Liston would beat any HW so no great shame there. He managed to back Ali to the ropes a few times, not sure if this was because Ali was blinded though, but Ali was just outboxing him and beating him up

 

I will if you stop lieing and stop connecting things that aren't there. I can already name things within your post that aren't true (Me PMing others about you). I never said that, but you read things the way you want to.

I'm playing devil's advocate while using your name. When I have a conversation with you, sometimes it's nice to hear others opinion on the specific issue. I don't have to tell others that's what you think, but it's easy to do so when you think that's a crazy opinion (I'm also offering a counter-position while giving it credence by showing what a poster thinks).

Again, why do you care if I mention you? I'm a terrible poster anyway. Surely this must be known to everyone anyway.

 

I explained why. He got Ali on the ropes when Ali was blinded. Ali would probably always have his number. That doesn't mean Liston can't increase his chances by doing smarter things.

 

Folley's footspeed wasn't all that exceptional. In fact, he tended to box aggressively and stand flatfooted.

Which means they either haven't seen his struggles with Doug Jones, Henry Cooper, or Billy Daniels from around that same time, or they're just looking for an angle to diminish the embarrassment of Liston's quit-jobs against him.

How many other fighters simply quit twice to Ali?

Only in three of the six completed rounds. Liston did enough to win the other three.

 

Mac is a fine poster,imo, we disagree on this one but that's life.
I agree with your assessment and think you encapsuled it succinctly and completely.Ali was caught in precisely the manner you describe might have happened,Henry Cooper backed him into the ropes whith a couple of jabs and then threw the hook, when he had him in the ring corner.
I might add, I saw a program which analysed fights ,on the panel were George Benton,Angelo Dundee and Archie Moore,Dundee commented on Liston's style of two step and throw the jab,and Moore stated categorically that Sonny never learned to cut off the ring,probably because he caught so many guys early.

 

Very True. Folley relied on his quick upperbody reflexes to score sharp combinations and his high ring IQ enabled him to pick and choose wisely. Folley was very hard to outpoint in my opinion. A technical aggresive boxer with pop in that right hand who could also counterpunch with the best of them.