Locche/Cervantes I - One Of The Greatest Wins Ever?

Bull****. Very little offense from Locche.

Dominates the round? Because he was showboating for the crowd against a tired Cervantes?
Cervantes clearly lands more punches than Locche in that round.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEKHMUCh8k[/ame]

 

Well, that'd be an official shutout. Can you think of any fights that should/could have been shutouts across the board?

Fights like Holmes/Cobb.

 

Even though I haven't seen the 2nd fight in a while I remember Locche having some impressive defensive moments. In fact he impressed me more in the 2nd fight than in that 15th round.
It was a close fight when Locche's cornerman threw in the towel.

My guess is that the first fight was similar to the second but with more showboating by Locche.

Locche's problem was that he didn't have a good offense to go with his good defense.

 

Fuji had a big punch but very little boxing skill.

 

I'm going to play total devil's advocate here. I like Loche and have always considered him to be top rung, but let's examine his career closely - and again, I'm playing devil's advocate in order to discuss but I will cite facts:

1) First of all regarding that 1st fight with Cervantes. We know it is stated that he won every round and all that is existant is that 15th round. No matter which way you play it, Cervantes won the round. I trust my baby blues and I am not swayed by someone saying what a magnificent display of defense. The only thing Loche did was act cute. I don't give points for cute. Cervantes was the only one throwing punches and they didn't all miss. Most of Loche's slips and sways were just nullifying the force, Cervantes was still tagging him. Cervantes' round and that makes me question a report that says Loche won every round. I would also like to know if all 3 judges were Argentine.

2) I have no report on his fight with Laguna but I do on the Ortiz fight, and it is reported that Ortiz was robbed. I believe 2 judges voted a draw and one for Loche for a majority draw. Again, Argentine judges? Do we see a pattern?

3) Argentina has long been known for scoring draws. Look at the record of any Argentine and you will see a plethora of them on anyone's record. Because it's better than a loss.

4) Adolph Pruitt had a major gripe over his fight with Loche. I have a good article on their bout and Pruitt claims he was the only one throwing punches. Remember what we saw in the 15th round of the 1st Cervantes fight. Again, I believe most every round went to Loche.

5) Loche had 136 fights. 132 of them were fought in Argentina. His record outside Argentina was 1-2-1.

Here is my question. There is no doubt Loche was a defensive whiz, but offensively, what are we missing and was he the recipient of Argentine "Home-Cooking"? Food for thought (no pun intended). Let's disuss, but let's leave hero-worship at the curb. I personally like my heroes and don't wish to see them fallible, but let's use our noggin's here and try to sort through this.

Scartissue

 

Very good post this.

Personally I score highly in favour of defence and generalship. I highly rate skill rather than other factors. I thin locche could conceivably have won that round, but it appeared he was putting a show on to cap out a great performance, rather than carry on his performance.

Apparently most fights in Argentina if reasonably close were scored a draw. In the footage, albeit it is only 3 minutes, it looks competitive at the very least. Both men have sucess with Ortiz looking slightly better.

See above.

There is footage of the Pruitt bout just a round or so but from memory Locche was superb defensivly and was landing on Pruitt.

Argueably his greatest performance took place outside of Argentina.

Do you have reports on some of the controversial Locche fights you could post up here?

 

I have the Pruitt fight somewhere. I'll have to rummage tomorrow. I'd like to see a report on Loche-Cervantes I if there is a decent Ring mag report, although I'm wondering now how their Argentine reporter might have seen it. I know Boxrec has a few of his fights. Again, I'll try and do a copy and paste tomorrow.

Scartissue

 

Thanks Scartissue

 

Here is what boxrec has. I'll tell ya, as someone who does a lot of research, it is very difficult gettting a report of any kind from Argentina and Puerto Rico. I'll keep digging though. If anyone else has anything from a magazine, it would be appreciated. Here is Cervantes-Locche II

1973-03-17 : Antonio Cervantes 139½lbs beat Nicolino Locche 139lbs by TKO in round 10 of 15
Location: Maestranza Cesar Giron, Maracay, Venezuela
Referee: Luis Sulbaran
Locche bleeding from a cut over over the left eye failed to come out for the tenth.

"Antonio Cervantes retained his WBA junior welterweight title with a TKO of Nicolino Locche of Argentina Saturday night. Locche, bleeding from a cut over the left eye, failed to come out for the 10h round. Cervantes dominated the fight at the Cesar Giron bullring from the outset with superior speed and punching power. Cervantes inflicted the cut over Locche's left eye in the 3rd round. Locche slowed down and could not get through to his taller opponent." -Associated Press


Scorecards (all for Cervantes)

98-96
96-95
97-95



Purses: Cervantes - $50,000, Locche - $10,000
Retrieved from "http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Antonio_Cervantes_vs._Nicolino_Locche_(2nd_meeting)"

Locche-Frazer

1972-03-10 : Nicolino Locche 140lbs lost to Alfonso Frazer 137¼lbs by UD in round 15 of 15
Location: Gimnasio Nuevo Panama, Panama City, Panama
Referee: Jesus Celis 143-147
Judge: Juan Carlos Tapia 141-148
Judge: Luis Allende 146-149

"Alfonso Frazer of Panama wore down Nicolino Locche of Argentina with a two-fisted attack to the head and won the WBA junior welterweight title with a unanimous 15 round decision Friday night. Frazer landed repeatedly with left jabs and opened a cut over Locche's left eye at the end of the 7th round. Locche's best round was the 4th when he landed several solid blows but could not halt Frazer's rain of punches. Locche attempted to dodge Frazer's blows, but his bob-and-weave style was unsuccessful against the Panamanian's punches." -Associated Press

Unofficial AP scorecard - 149-140 Frazer
Purses: Locche - $75,000, Frazer - $7,500

Post fight comment

"I have no excuses. What I want is a rematch in Argentina." -Nicolino Locche

Locche-Pruitt

1970-05-16 : Nicolino Locche 139¼lbs beat Adolph Pruitt 138lbs by UD in round 15 of 15
Location: Estadio Luna Park, Buenos Aires, Distrito Federal, Argentina
149-145
149-144
149-141

"Nicolino Loche employed his typical defensive strategy in gaining a unanimous decision over Adolph Pruitt. Skillfully seeking the ropes and corners, Loche fended off solid rights and lefts from the aggressive Pruitt, who clearly sought a knockout." -Associated Press

Post fight comments

"Beginning right now, I'm thinking about Jose Napoles." -Nicolino Loche
"I thought I won the fight. If it had been in the U.S. I would have won 14 rounds." -Adolph Pruitt
"Loche's a good defensive fighter, but if Adolph hadn't carried the fight to him there wouldn't have been any fight. If this had happened in the U.S. they would have booed him out of the ring." -Dave Manookian, Pruitt's manager
Retrieved from "http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Nicolino_Locche_vs._Adolph_Pruitt"

Locche-Fuji

1968-12-12 : Nicolino Locche 138½lbs beat Takeshi Fuji 139¾lbs by RTD in round 10 of 15
Location: Kokugikan, Tokyo, Japan
Referee: Nick Pope 45-40
Judge: Takeo Ugo 45-39
Judge: Hiroyuki Tezaki 44-41

"Nicolino Locche hopelessly outclassed Paul Fuji Thursday night and pounded him into a between-rounds surrender to win the junior welterweight title before 10,000 shocked fans at Tokyo's Kuramae Stadium. Hawaiian-born Fuji collpased on his stool at the end of the terrible 9th round - in which the Argentine pounded him at will, as Locche had done from the opening bell. Ready to continue his desperate efforts, Fuji's seconds, looking at the welts that shut both eyes, ruled otherwise. Five seconds after the bell sounded for the 10th, Locche was declared a knockout winner by Japanese rules that ban a TKO unless the losing fighter's injuries were inflicted by an accidental butt. There were no knockdowns. Locche was warned twice for open-glove hitting and Fuji once for butting." -Pacific Stars & Stripes

Unofficial Pacific Stars & Stripes scorecard (at the time of stoppage) - 44-39 Locche
Retrieved from "http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Nicolino_Locche_vs._Paul_Fuji"

Locche-Ortiz

1966-04-07 : Carlos Ortiz 139¾lbs drew with Nicolino Locche 138¼lbs by PTS in round 10 of 10
Location: Estadio Luna Park, Buenos Aires, Distrito Federal, Argentina
Referee: Victor Avendano
Judge: Juan Barde 198-198
Judge: Nestor Allende 197-200
Judge: Eloy Gonzalez 197-197


Majority draw: two officials called the decision a draw and one voted for Locche.


Associated Press:

"Most of the fans at Luna Park Stadium booed the verdict. They thought Ortiz was a clear-cut winner, although they rooted for Locche.

"Ortiz had the upper hand most of the way and Locche clinched frequently. The Argentine's face was swollen at the end of the bout."

Scartissue

 

At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure even if we did have Locche's whole career on tape, his style would polarize people.

I think the 15th round against Cervantes is a good case in point. You'd have some people saying Cervantes was the one in control, he was the only one trying to fight, he was the only one throwing, all Locche did was clown. You'd have others (myself included) who would say that for all of Cervantes' offense, the blows he landed were only about as effective as the ones Locche landed, and given that Locche made him look silly in the process and showed great D, I'd put the scoring criteria of defense and ring generalship squarely in Locche's corner, whilst not giving either man an edge in clean punching or effective aggression - thus giving the round to Nicolino.

Some people would dig his style and some wouldn't, and the scorecards on his fights would vary because of it.

Is he lucky that he fought in his home town his whole career and got judges that appreciated his theatrics? Can't doubt it, not even a bit.

You fight like Locche in a hostile environment, you lose big no matter what - just ask Pernell Whitaker.

 

Thanks Scartissue. The Locche vs Cervantez II report is interesting, I have had Locche winning that each time I have watched it.

I agree with this post completely, and the bit in bold. Perhaps that is why I had Locche winning the rematch with Cervantez.

 

His offense was poor I agree.

However, I will take issue with your scoring. The scoring system is split equally between effective aggression, clean punching, ring generalship, and defense. In that last round Locche clearly won on ring generalship and defense, so how do you have him losing the round?