Gunboat Smith, Jim Flynn on Sam Langford

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by guilalah, Jun 25, 2010.


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  1. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    "Langford versus Dempsey, both in their prime would have been bad news for Dempsey. He could be hit easily with a right hand and if anybody had a right hand it was 'The Tar Baby.' I'll go further and declare that Langford would have waded through every heavy champ we've had including the current soldier boy, Joe Louis. Louis is a great champ, I grant, but he's inclined to get hot and bothered when the going gets rough. Langford was as cool as an iceberg every minute he was in there. He never lost his head."
    -- Gunboat Smith, in a 1942 article in Fight Stories
    cited Moyle, 'Sam Langford: Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion', p. 301

    "If you ask me, I'll say the hardest hitter I ever went up against was Sam Langford. I fought most of the heavyweights of the last twenty years, Jack Johnson among them, and I think Langford could knock a fellow colder than any of them. It was like being hit with a baseball bat. He hit you so hard you didn't feel it. It was like taking ether -- you just went to sleep and you didn't know anything about it until you woke up."
    -- 'Fireman' Jim Flynn, Washington Post, 6 May 1923
    cited Moyle, p. 348

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    Moyle's book is very entertaining and informative not only about Langford but also about his other opponents, and also about the legal status of boxing in Australia at that time (infighting could get a person arrested) and I highly recommend it.
     
    guilalah, Jun 25, 2010
    guilalah, Jun 25, 2010
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  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Very interesting about Dempsey being a sucker for a right hand. 170lb Georges Carpentier put Dempsey on rubber legs with one right. Firpo, Tunney, Sharkey, Brennan can all be seen having right hand success on Dempsey on film.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 25, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Jun 25, 2010
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  3. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The right hand business is the biggest thing (along with inactivity and Wills) that gives me pause about Dempsey, who I think was a very versatile battler.

    Then again, so often you'd hear how a punch took Dempsey high on the jaw and, oh!, if it had landed on his chin .... Well, you hear that often enough, you start to think 'Well, maybe there's a reason they weren't landing on his chin ...'.
     
    guilalah, Jun 25, 2010
    guilalah, Jun 25, 2010
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That is a great book.

    One thing. Louis gets hot and bothered? When?
     
    McGrain, Jun 25, 2010
    McGrain, Jun 25, 2010
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  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very incisive question...Dempsey for the most part had his chin tucked behind his left shoulder...And with his bobbing and weaving style was a VERY difficult target to tag solidly on the jaw...If Joe Louis had this style
    Louis wouldn't have been dropped as often, but that was a different boxing style altogether...
     
    burt bienstock, Jun 25, 2010
    burt bienstock, Jun 25, 2010
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  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Joe Louis had a better style than Dempsey, imo. He fought at a much more measured and calculated pace. He was also the better talent and had better tools as a puncher too. Had Dempsey fought Louis's hectic schedule, he would have been dropped/hurt/defeated more often than he was.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 25, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Jun 25, 2010
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think "Rubber legs " is overstating it somewhat.
    Tunney actually said that Dempsey was difficult to hit on the chin .A prime Langford would have been a tough nut for any champ imo.
     
    mcvey, Jun 25, 2010
    mcvey, Jun 25, 2010
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  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1452BrhJs0&feature=related[/ame]
    Watch 2:50-2:53

    Seems like Dempsey's legs give out on him for a second...no?
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 25, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Jun 25, 2010
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  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't think so Suzie, and to be honest,I think Dempsey may have carried Carp for a round or so, Rickard certainly asked him to.
     
    mcvey, Jun 25, 2010
    mcvey, Jun 25, 2010
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  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Sam Langford is the greatest fighter who ever lived. I have no problem stating that.
     
    Seamus, Jun 25, 2010
    Seamus, Jun 25, 2010
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  11. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Carp definately rocked Dempsey in the second round and wobbled him.
     
    klompton, Jun 26, 2010
    klompton, Jun 26, 2010
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Dempsey had a good, but not great chin. After all he was only stopped once in his career, and that was early.

    I think Dempsey took a better shot than Louis, or Johnson. You could say Dempsey's chin was battle tested by some solid hitters in Fripo and Brennan, plus Jack Sharkey best filmed combination.

    Dempsey had a pretty good defense. He could move his head and feet very well when he wanted to. With Dempsey relentless offensive attack made him open to shots. I agree this left him open to some right hands.
     
    Mendoza, Jun 26, 2010
    Mendoza, Jun 26, 2010
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  13. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes he did...No shame..Carpentier though 170 pounds flattened heavyweights [Beckett-Bomb Billy Wells] with his laser right hand...the Orchid Man had great right hand punching power, much more so than Billy Conn [a better boxer].but not a one punch hitter whose accumilitive punches staggered Joe Louis...Any one can get hurt..But Dempsey and Louis both rose to the occasion...
     
    burt bienstock, Jun 26, 2010
    burt bienstock, Jun 26, 2010
    #13
  14. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    AND if the Queen had balls, she would be King...Dempsey's style was effective for him ,as was Joe Louis's style...
    Roberto Duran would be Jack Dempsey to Alexis Arguello's Joe Louis's style. Arguello was beautiful to watch, but would he have beaten the
    wilder, more fiery Duran ? I think not..
    Harry Greb did most everything wrong stylistically, but his positives were so overwhelming, it drowned his more classical opposition...Thus too with Jack Dempsey I believe [ with MANY others,I might add }.
     
    burt bienstock, Jun 26, 2010
    burt bienstock, Jun 26, 2010
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  15. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    While I dont disagree that Carpentier had a great right hand I would argue that flattening wells and beckett with it isnt proof of anyones punching prowess. All of their losses with the exception of a 20 round decision loss by Beckett to Dick Smith were by the KO route and often times very early KOs.
     
    klompton, Jun 26, 2010
    klompton, Jun 26, 2010
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