Put a prime Sonny Liston in the 70s...

Thank you Chris, especially considering how small his opposition was. Young would be a big fighter by Liston's opposition standards.

 

Young was not any better than Machen/Folley. Liston faced his share of big fighters, including powerful punchers like 6'4 207lb Mike DeJohn, 6'3 215lb Cleveland Williams, 6'3 211lb Nino Valdes.

Did you guys take a peek at Young? seems to be carrying some excess. I think he could have made 200lb if he wanted too.

This may sound sad..but George Foreman in his 2nd comeback defeated as many Ring Magazine ranked fighters as Liston did post Ali(Answer: One). Shows you how overrated Foreman was. Beating on tomato cans, struggling with unrated B level fighters, and getting 2 miracle title shots without beating any ranked fighters.

 

1. Tommy Morrison could not carry Sonny Liston's JockStrap.

2. Ron Lyle floored a young Foreman twice, and had him on the brink of knockout. Lyle was like a poor man's sonny liston.

 

I think Young was definitely better than Machen or Folley. I always think he probably present more trouble for Liston. Young arguably beat Ali and Norton, and officially beat Lyle and Foreman.

To say he's too small is a joke when examining a lot of Liston's opposition. Every foams of the mouth in his win against Patterson but Young chances against Liston are next to zero because he's too little? It's unrealistic, and a distorted sense of the truth. He might have been able to make 200 pounds, but what does that mean?

What about the other organizations? He also fought a lot of these Ring Magazine fighters. Lastly, beating Moorer and winning the HW championship at 45 regardless of how lucky someone may think it is is a hell of a lot better than beating Henry Clark. Hell, it might be better than beating Patterson (Not as a performance, but as an achievement/win). Lastly, Foreman clearly beat Briggs but was robbed. He was definitely Ring rated. What was Savarese ranked? Schultz, Stewart, Coetzer. I know not top 10, but how high?

 

The 1970s is a bit overrated because of Ali's Mystique. Don't forget, a Washed up Eddie Machen beat an Undefeated Jerry Quarry who kicked the **** out of top 70s heavyweights like Lyle and Shavers. I see no reason why Folley and Machen could not done equally as well in the 70s and done just as well vs Young's competition. Watching them on film, there isn't one thing Young does better than Folley/Machen except perhaps look a little more hefty around the midsection.

I never said Liston would beat Young due to Size. Where did you get this?

 

According to the 4th edition of the Boxing Register 2009...the only Ring Magazine top 10 contender George Foreman faced was Tommy Morrison, who won a wide decision over Foreman. Holyfield and Moorer were Champions. Shultz, Stewart, Coetzer, Saverese, Briggs, None of them top 10 according to my source. Then again, the boxing register 4th edition has made minor mistakes before, so I wouldn't put it past them that perhaps one of those men were rated at the time(but in the monthly ratings only)

 

I see you're stretching Liston's size to the maximum so as to continue to perpetuate the thought that Liston was huge juggernaught.

Firstly, He's listed as 6'0 in several sources and was built strong, but not very tall for a HW.

Secondly, you're listing him as 215-218lbs. Again, no surprise there, imaging him bigger than he was. He fought at that weight actually, against Ali, when you claim he was 50 years old. His best fights are around 210lbs, the peak performance against Bethea being at a mere 204lbs. His key victims were hardly bigger than Marciano's - but do keep imagining that they were all big guys like Lewis' victims so that it looks like Liston was that big, too.

Oh, and Young would most definitely by one of the bigger opponents he fought, not to mention one of the best.

 

I think Liston, at his best beats every heavy from the 70's except Ali, who even though not as quick as 1st time around, still was so, so accurate, and would be able to thud in shots then tie Sonny up.
If Sonny could establish the jab v Ali, I think he'd beat him too, I just dont think he'd be able to.
Sonny was awesome.

 

Can't see Liston beating Ali whatsoever sorry.

 

Lets step back.

Norton was if anything faster than Liston.

Norton had the incredible Eddie Futch in his corner.

Futch had Norton going down the pipe when Ali punched.

Norton had FANTASTIC stamina.

Due to Futch, Norton knew EXACTY what to do in various scenario's, not least of all when Ali was on the ropes.

Norton would not be psyched out or intimidated, we know for an absolute fact Ali could intimidate Liston!

Bottom line - noway on earth is Liston getting Ali out of there fast and we know Liston has next to zero experience past 10 at any stage of his career. By contrast Norton has proven he is a fine fighter over 12-15 rounds.

 

Prime Liston would have knocked Ali out, no question. People forget that Sonny was washed-up when he fought Ali; that fight has no significant at all. Liston actually peaked as an amateur, and was on the slide ever since.

 

Liston was coming off 2 sensational wins, and even if he was past prime he sure as hell wasn't washed up

Not to mention Clay was a fledgling! Liston's possible slight deterioration is more than offset by Ali's inexperience.