Jersey Joe Walcott in H2H matches.. How does he do?

You know, I'm trying to think of when I've even seen a H2H thread with Joe in it and I really don't remember one. Maybe it's because of his age when he had his biggest success...Hard for me to answer. I haven't seen much footage of him when he was a younger man, say before the first Louis match, and from what I understand he often came to fights in pretty rough shape then, do to poverty? When was his prime? What was the best he looked on film and was it past his prime? Is there a heaven? Why are we here? Ah, questions...

 

Walcott lost 17 times. While he did give Louis and Marciano a tough night, I think average defense, and slow footwork of Louis and Marciano allowed Walcott's best stuff to shine. I believe Walcott defeated Louis in the first fight.

Walcott isn't going to out box a much bigger man with a jab and power, nor is he going to escape a dynamic swarmer who can close the gap quickly and cut of corners.

I think he best shot here is vs Johnson who did not throw many punches and vs. Foreman who could gas out.

 

Yep of course Mendoza chimes in with 1940s-50s backlash. Doesn't give one ounce of credit to Walcott's tremendous skill, or to Louis and Marciano as highly dangerous fighters. Just critisizes them. If this was a h2h thread about jeffries, he would be all over jeffries junk about how talented he was. You won't see him critical in that capacity.

 

Rocky Marciano KO 13 Jersey Joe Walcott- Walcott ahead on points
Joe Louis KO 11 Jersey Joe Walcott- Walcott ahead on points
Muhammad Ali 15 Split Jersey Joe Walcott
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 unanimous Jack Dempsey- Upset.
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 majority Jack Johnson
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 split Gene Tunney
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 split Sonny Liston- My upset pick due to styles
Joe Frazier TKO 14 Jersey Joe Walcott
Jersey Joe Walcott TKO 12 George Foreman
Larry Holmes 15 majority Jersey Joe Walcott
Mike Tyson- KO 7 Jersey Joe Walcott
Lennox Lewis- KO 10 Jersey Joe Walcott
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 majority Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko 15 majority Jersey Joe Walcott

Jersey Joe Walcott 15 split Ken Norton
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 unanimous Ernie Terrell
Jersey Joe Walcott 15 Unanimous David Tua

I see him going 9-8. Not a bad record against the very best ATG's. Walcott was elite.

 

Rocky Marciano - a prime Walcott may edge 1 in a series

Joe Louis - prime Louis wins

Muhammad Ali - Ali wins

Jack Dempsey - Walcott may well win this, he has just as much boxing skill as Tunney, he may seriously school Dempsey, Dempsey could knock Walcott out though. I'd go with Walcott 65-35 chance of winning

Jack Johnson - hmmm not seen enough of Johnson, I give Walcott the edge in boxing skill but I'm not really sure - 50-50

Gene Tunney - Walcott UD - a better boxer and stronger for my money

Sonny Liston - Walcott's mobility and defense could see him outbox Liston for periods, but Listons jab, strength and power would likely see him catch up to Walcott and KO him

Muhammad Ali - Ali just has too much speed for Walcott, maybe Jersey Joe gives him a few problems, but no way he wins

Joe Frazier - Frazier is a similar match up to Marciano, he also is excellent at breaking down boxer types, Frazier by stoppage possibly after being outboxed early

George Foreman - Foreman just has too much strength and power

Larry Holmes - Holmes UD

Mike Tyson - TYson KO

Lennox Lewis - Lewis KO

Either Klitschko - too much size but he may expose some of their limitations

 

All very logical results. Suzie you are a connoisseur of the 50's and appreciate the talent that is rare found. I especially like the Liston and Foreman picks JJW was a master

 

Thanx Bummy...You and I appreciate the true talent we see on film of the 40s-50s era.
BTW, do you still rate Jersey Joe 4th all time? Love that pick. JJW is creeping into my top 10.

 

It was really really hard. You have no idea. but Walcott has everything that is valuable to defeat liston. ATG footwork, Movement, misdirections, feints, use of angles, Triple Jab combinations, and top power in both hands.

Other than Ali, Louis, and Walcott...I don't see anyone beating Sonny Liston in history.

 

Rocky Marciano...Marciano KO 13
Joe Louis........Louis KO 11
Muhammad Ali...Ali SD15....close fight...Ali gets the nod despite boo's
Jack Dempsey...Walcott W15
Jack Johnson....Walcott W15
Gene Tunney...Walcott SD 15
Sonny Liston....Walcott W15...Crafty Walcott take advantage of Liston's lack of speed of foot and hand
Joe Frazier......Frazier tko 14. Joe could get hook uppercutted but I like his pressure
George Foreman Walcott TKO 11...Foreman made to order for Walcott
Larry Holmes...Walcott UD 15...Larry gets dropped 2 times by rights
Mike Tyson......Walcott TKO 12....Joe has to survive Tyson's early rush
Lennox Lewis....Walcott SD 15
Either Klitschko...Walcott in close decision of Vitali
Vlad the edge for boring SD 15but watch the Walcott one punch power and cuteness

Joe was erratic but I give him the benefit of a good night

 

Bummy,

Ya Holmes was wide open for those Walcott tricky counter right hands huh?

 

Everything here presupposes that the sometimes hot and cold Walcott is at his best.

He would drive Foreman and Liston up a wall. Peralta, Martin, Machen, Whitehurst and Marshall proved that it was entirely possible for a heavyweight under 200 pounds to compete with them, and Walcott was greater than all five combined. Sonny's jab would be striking air, and Joe would be seeing everything Foreman attempted to launch via Western Onion. George wouldn't last the distance, getting completely spent with all his missing, and Walcott would have the power necessary to stop him late. Liston wouldn't suffer from exhaustion, but I do think he'd become frustrated enough to blow a few points or rounds on low blows out of exasperation.

With Dempsey and Frazier, we're looking at a wild chase. I'm inclined to think that body shots from the aggressors would slow Walcott down just enough to expose his chin to their heavy artillery. If either were to do it with a single shot, Dempsey would be the one.

Concerning a visual with the Klitschkos and Lennox, I'll take the lazy way out, and refer to the Ten Hoff footage.

Tunney would allow Walcott to dictate the movement, as he was perfectly comfortable advancing behind his jab, the way he did with Gibbons. Ten Hoff did have some success jabbing Walcott, and Gene's jab was much faster. Tunney takes the decision here. Holmes outpoints Joe in much the same way.

Marciano is a pick-em, but for Walcott to win, he has to take it the distance. (It may be an extremely fortunate thing for Rocky that he didn't match Joe while climbing the rungs of contention.)

Against Jack Johnson, work rate and body punching does it for Walcott. Lil' Artha' excelled in the clinches, but Jersey Joe wouldn't give him much opportunity to wrestle and slug in close quarters. Decision Walcott, as Johnson hangs back too much to prevail in the scoring.

With Tyson, the combination of hand speed and pressure would be too much. I don't think Mike would bother playing games with Joe after studying his films, but concentrate instead on what he himself did best.

Louis? I don't buy the suggestion that Walcott gave him such difficulties because the Bomber had lapsed into a postwar decline. He looked fine wiping out Mauriello. No, Jersey used some of the same template Pastor employed to give him headaches a decade earlier. Louis won their first match due to scoring based on the rounds system. One factor that is all too often overlooked when discussing the Bomber's postwar performances is the death of Blackburn after the Simon rematch in 1942. I will assume that with Chappie doing the strategy for Louis that the Bomber's body work would slow Walcott's legs enough for him to administer the coup de grace late in the championship rounds, as he did in the first bouts with Simon and Conn.

If Tua hits him, he's dead, but Walcott would be fully aware of that hazard. I don't believe David gets to him as necessary to produce a halt, and Walcott gets a lopsided decision out of it.

Terrell would have trouble landing his jab on a low target, and as with Johnson, Walcott wouldn't give Ernie much of a chance to utilize his mauling tactics. Terrell hits the deck in this one.

Norton is just the sort of miserable son of a ***** to make life hell for a boxer of Walcott's style. Joe is not out boxing him from long range, and Kenny's hooks to the body would pile up points when Walcott moves closer. Jersey could counter punch with deadly force, but it was the initiatory power carried by a Cooney, Foreman and Shavers which was needed to wipe Norton out. Joe wouldn't be able to get underneath Ken either. Norton had too much practice time with a peak Frazier to permit that opportunity to present itself with sufficient regularity.

Ali would be an interesting case. Walcott himself openly expressed the opinion that Muhammad would have defeated all preceding heavyweight champions, himself included. But how it unfolds would be intriguing. Ali would be coming forward here, conceding Joe the ring movement. The vast majority of Muhammad's front foot action came during his second career, mainly against Bugner, Mac Foster and Blue Lewis, although he also did some earlier with Terrell.

He decisions Joe, but not without getting decked by a counter hook at some point. Two other opponents who got him coming forward during his first career were Cooper and Banks, who made him pay for it by dropping him on his seat. That happened to a pre prime Clay, but I believe Walcott was sufficiently skilled and savvy enough at his best to repeat this trick on a peak Ali.

 

I moved him down a bit because he was erratic but on a good night he is my upset king...He had the craftiness and power to beat many of the ATG's.. He had legs,ring smarts, 2-fisted pin point power.

He was a late bloomer because he just put it all-together at that age and when these guys today watch a guy like B-Hop they can relate.

I love him over Foreman and Tyson as a big upsets but he would have to be careful early, which he was for the most part.

JJW did not really have killer instinct but great ring radar. He was my favorite stylist and spoiler at Heavyweight.

He will remain in my top 10