You want slow? [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldketqxnaWs[/ame] Checkout this slow old fat sack of crap
The right hand at 10 secs of that tape is the perfect example of a super fast super skilled modern super heavy:yep To be honest, if that version of George could be reasonably successful, imagine what Prime George would do.
Looks like Liston was lucky to get the win, though. A report from Ring magazine in 1954 by Weine: "Every once in a while you watch a fight that after the official decision is announced you can't help but feel tht perhaps some of the advance publicity had swayed the arbiters. Such was the case when Johnny Summerlin, 193, spotted his highly billed foe, Charles "Sonny" Liston 13 lbs and lost a most puzzling verdict. The bout itself was as torrid as any seen here for several years. But by having scored more often with the cleaner and more effective punches, veteran observers were 100 % in favor of Summerlin." The second fight seems to be more of the same. It's also interesting that the author implies that going into the fight, Liston is the prospect and Summerlin just a record building opponent. I think Liston was lucky that Harold Johnson fight didn't fall through. Too early. I would love to see it though.
I've also read accounts that have Liston winning - but nobody ever says anything other than it was close. Summerlin was certainly the prospect, and the betting favourite, going in. The second one, I've never seen a report objecting the decision. Outside of noting it was split, nothing i've seen even indicates it was (oddly) anything like as close as the first one. At worst it's labelled a "close split" as by the NYT. You got something? I would love to see it if you do. Summerlin's an interesting case. He had hypesthesia and fought on occasion without feeling in his left hand side. This is why he retired so young.
I'll take your word for it.... But, as a prospect, Foreman defeated Antonio Peralta who in 1969, was the Ring's #10 heavyweight.. Therefore, Foreman beat a ranked heavyweight, while Liston LOST to ranked light heavy weight. Foreman was never known for having much in the way of reflexes, and frankly I still think that a veteran former world champion should have an easier time dispatching the same guy, than a 3 fight novice..
Martin was lucky to land that right hand or Liston would've went on and decisioned Martin. He was ahead on points, had a knockdown earlier in the fight, and Martin's eye was screwed up for the rest of his life after this.
Nah, Liston was done in, he was knackered. He was an 8 round fighter by that stage and it just showed. His training was all to hell and he was just getting sloppy. I think Martin would have got to him sooner or later. There's a beautiful George Foreman quote on this fight, I'll see if I can find it.
I can't seem to find the article on the second fight, though I've seen it. Could you post your article that says Summerlin is the prospect? Because mine completely contradicts that statement.
"Liston's first big fight, his first out of town fight, his first televised fight, was on June 29th 1954, a main event match in Detroit against the Michigan State Heavyweight Champion Johnny Summerlin. Summerlin was a hometown hero, and considered to be Michigan's finest heavyweight. Local bookmakers had Liston as an off the board twenty two to one underdog. - The Devil and Sonny Liston page 65 Liston-Summerlin II brief report the following day- "Sonny Liston could claim the Michigan title without dispute, if he resided here."- Detroit News "At this stage of his career, I would say he's a better prospect than Joe Louis at a comparable point."- Bill Appelton, one of the 3 judges of Liston-Summerlin II
"John Summerlin another Detroiter won the Michigan state heavyweight title by scoring a technical knock out over Oscar Pharo at 2:28 of the second round."- June 9 1954 Chicago Tribune
We do you even argue this? It's like me saying Rocky was lucky to KO Walcott. Who cares, it happened. Foreman would have taken it without blinking. He took harder punches in his comeback no doubt.
Because Liston was dominating him until it happened. That's why. Plus, Liston was shot as hell, Prime Liston would make this guy have nightmares about him. Better question. Why would you bring up the fact that he got KO'd in his early 40s? Who cares? He was shot, old, undertrained, and not a great fighter anymore. good for him he KO'd a shot Liston. I'd like to see him do that to a prime liston.
That would be a better post anyway. I was posting it because Suzie was making fun of how slow a mid 40's Foreman was. Really silly considering how much of anomaly Foreman was.