Could Heavys like Jeffries, Corbett, Fitz hang with the heavys over the last 40years?

I think only Johnson could hang in there with the best of them. the others would probably get crushed.

 

With his ridiculously low-output and reliance on strength and size advantages, Johnson would be one of the first to fall.

 

Or with his fondness of excessive clinching, hitting and holding, perhaps the first one to get DQ'd.

 

Maybe Johnson doesn't last either. but he has good speed, defense, and stength for his size.

 

I don't think he showed his full potential and ability enough. Which hurts any positive imagination towards his ability in a modern setting. But he had some skills and was far better than his competition in his time. He was in a different time, though. It's all fresh in my mind as I saw Johnson's Best Years on ESPN Classic.

 

This how i think the matchups look:

John L. Sullivan v Michael Tyson - You have reviewed the film. Now forget about it, as we have no film of Sullivan. Write down the names of each fighters opponents and the results (any Tyson fights which are more than 4 rnds will have to be ND or Ls) and remember that most points decision fights will need to be made NDs. We know virtually nothing of most of Sullivans opponents so just simply compare the records and tell us who should win.

James J. Corbett v Muhammed Ali - Again, write down their results off fights using the same cut off distance as corbett had (largely 4 rnders and ND fights). Also, look at past prime results after they loss superiority and compare Corbett's performances against Jeffries & McCoy with Ali's against Holmes and Berbick. Then review film. You can have a minute or so of Ali clowning in sparring and you can have most of Ali's loss to Spinks, but you have to blur the footage, vary the speed and take out half the frames.

Bob Fitzsimmons v Michael Spinks - to get an idea of what he can do, it is probably best to compare his Bill Lang fight with one of Roberto Duran's last fights and remember that Lang was one of the best 10 heavyweights in the world. It also wouldnt hurt to pop in a fight of James Toney's heavyweight escapades and imagine what would have happened if he was in good condition and actually had the ko punch and power of any of the top heavys (maybe even at Tyson level). You should also wright down his wins and compare them to spinks' (using the nd and 4 rnd rules). And maybe even have a sneak peak at the last Spinks Tyson. You could also look at some blurry footage of Spinks Holmes, if you want.

Marvin Hart v Evander Holyfield - Tough one here, as Hart wasnt ever really anything muchin his own time. I have always been worried about Hart losing his title to a light heavyweight and struggling with some of the smaller fighters in last years. Better compare how evander went defending his title against the light heavyweight champion Moorer and that should be enough to make a decision, shouldnt it?

Sam Langford v Wlad Klitchsko - There isnt really any decent footage of Sam. But we know from reading that Sam has a hell of punch but we also know Wlad has a massive reach advantage and likes to stay behind his jab. Better just cheat a bit for Wlad and pop in the tapes of any fights against smaller guys who went for the big KO punch to try to turn things around and see how much his reach stops this. Try say Brewster and Sanders but remember that Langford is rated a lot higher and harder hitter by most than these two guys.

Harry Wills v Lennox Lewis - NO footage of either! so we are stuck results. Start with comparing Tyson - Lewis results with the big hitting ATG Wills faced - Old Langford-Wills (forget about the earlier results). I guess you should also compare the records and ATG standings of the guys who beat each of them. Langford and Sharkey vs McCall and Rahman.

Jack Johnson vs Larry Holmes - Compare the length of their reigns at the top, and compare their second careers! You can look at the film and results of their two fights against all time great Light heavys - Johnson Ketchell and Holmes - Spinks II (since this was where holmes really trained and set himself). Maybe look at how each won the title and who did so the easiest - BurnsJohnson and Holmes Norton, though of course Holmes footage needs to be black and white and of less quality in his fights. We should probably also compare the fights where they lost the title, but adjust JOhnson's fight back to a 15 round fight with a 10 point must system. Maybe just double check the size and weight of opponents here to. I dont place much faith in this, but some have weight hang ups so we need to make sure none of the fighters were fighting light heavys or little guys!

Joe Jeannette vs Frazier - No film of Jeanette available here again, so throw out the Frazier film. also, Jeanette had to fight the best of his times over and over without ever getting a world title chance. So, try to imagine Frazier if he fought Liston, Foreman, Bonavena, Bugner and co over and over, without ever getting the chance to fight the man considered an unbeatable great - Muhammed Ali.

Sam McVea - Vitali Klitchsko - Again no footage. Maybe it would be best and easiest to compare the resumes of the fighters that each fighter beat and compare the results particularly of the All time great fighters that each met.

Tommy Burns v Tim Witherspoon - Very little film of Burns, you could maybe pop in Witherspoons loss of the title against Bonecrusher Smith and compare it to Burns Johnson but remember how much better Johnson was than Smith. You could probably compare one or two contender fights to see if either has any KO power. Maybe compare the footage of say Squires and Tubbs fights. Also better double check whether each fighter has a glass jaw or not. List the fights and rounds they ahve been kod in and compare them.

James J Jeffries - Riddick Bowe - Pretty easy this one. Compare the footage available. Jeffries Johnson and Bowe Zumbren. Remember also the quality of Zumbren and Jonson. Then come back and tell me who was te better fighter.


George Foreman - You havent left anyone to fight Foreman, so i am not sure who would step up to the plate. Maybe we can use Gene Tunney. We do have good film of Tunney against an ATG puncher in Dempsey. And in Dempsey Tunney II Dempsey nailed him on film. So we can see if Tunney can take a punch or not. And we can also see how he can overcome a strenght and power disadvantage. Check how many rounds he won. Now compare this by popping in George's fights with the two best moving boxers he fought YOung and Ali. Then make your decision.


So having done the above, and going in with an open mind (i am sure this wont happen for most) what are your picks?

 

I was just being a bit slack and lazy (and trying to suit my purposes). I really meant quality or Volume, but i suppose if we look at Vitali Klitchsko v Byrd fight (i think there is a devolution of boxing version floating around youtube) we could compare it to the McVey-Johnson fight you just posted.

 

Is that the same fight where Vitali was leading by 5 or 6 rounds on each card before retiring after 8 with a shoulder injury?

 

I am not sure because you only get to watch 3:57 of the fight between Vitali and Byrd remember. I suppose it depends on which bits are shown. By the way, how many rounds did you score McVey winning against Johnson in the fight that was just posted? I am pretty sure that McVey didnt retire with a shoulder injury though so that has to be a tick in his favour either way, doesnt it?

 

I think Langford by virtue of sheer beastery and Johnson in terms of skill and athletic ability would be able to survive. I feel there is a technique gap with the rest that is a little too large, especially with like, John L.

 

Ironically, John L may have the best chance, if you are correct in your reasoning.

If there really is a technique gap, then it is only the punchers that have a chance. And JOhn L has the best proven ko power at heavyweight. With one big shot, even an unskilled fighter can cause the upset.

 

Sorry,misconstrued your point. Color my remark irrelevant.