My Dad was born in 1896 and passed in 1978. He followed and attended boxing events all his life. collected boxing films, and saw many of the greats fight in person. I thought it might be interesting to some to see his top 10 heavyweight list, finalized, I believe, around 1976. My dad tended to rank based on who he thought would have beaten whom, as opposed to resume. 1. Jack Dempsey 2. Joe Louis 3. Muhammad Ali 4. Jack Johnson 5. Gene Tunney 6. James J. Jeffries 7. Rocky Marciano 8. Sam Langford 9. George Foreman T. Sonny Liston I know he thought a lot of Joe Frazier, and, had he extended his list to 12, I'm sure Frazier would have been included. I know he also saw Larry Holmes fight, and mentioned that he thought he was a real good up and coming heavyweight. He always stuck to his guns on Dempsey. He mentioned once that he suspected that John L. Sullivan was underrated by "modern" boxing fans. An interesting statement, considering Sullivan's rise in all-time rankings in recent years. He knew Nat Fleischer and argued that he thought Jack Dempsey would have knocked out Jack Johnson (Fleischer's number 1).
That is awesome to have the perspective of somebody who saw all those greats fight. Very interesting list seeing Dempsey at #1, Langford and Tunney high up aswell. Greatly appreciated. :thumbsup
Almost a universal top 5, speaking to many senior boxing fans I know who have long died off and were lucky enough to witness many of the above fine champions. Jack Johnson Joe Louis Ali Dempsey Marciano I've come across these five in this order more often when talking to people who were alive during these fights.
A fine list by your dad...About what I would list also.. What a war it wouold have been between the Dempsey of Toledo and the Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight !!!It would come down to styles and I envision Dempsey with an Arturo Godoy approach,plus dynamite punching power,landing first on Louis, resulting in a kayo...Of course Louis had the arsenal to kayo Dempsey or anybody in history...I loved them both as fighters...
I have the same first four, but in different order. Ali Johnson Dempsey Louis Liston Foreman and Marciano also make my ten. Nice to see a rating from a man who was around then. :good
Definitely an excellent list. Though i wonder where Sullivan, Fitz and Corbett might fit in, if he had seen them first hand. I suspect he might not have ranked fightershe did not see. It is also interesting to see that Harry Wills is not rated but Lanford is and Dempsey is number one(nothing wrong with this ), just interesting
It's quality to get all this knowledge of someone who has witnessed boxing through the years im intrigued being so young to learn as much as i can
Really interesting, and I'm glad you posted this. It certainly gives an interesting perspective, especially on how awesome Dempsey was viewed at. For those who would include H2H in their criteria, obviously including Dempsey is very reasonable from this mindset. It's awesome how your dad got to see these greats in person. And to those who think Foreman is overrated. Imagine what your father would've thought to see a man win the title 20 years after he lost it. No past champion or man would probably ever be able to do such a feat. It's truly something special, and often under-appreciated. I'm surprised he made make a list from this time period. But crushing Norton and Frazier was special.
Nothing wrong in picking Joe Louis over Dempsey [wrong as it may be]. But why by an early ko ? Why in the world would Arturo Godoy last 15 rounds in their first round and 8 rounds in the second bout with Louis and a ATG Dempsey who had a similar bob and weave style,who was twice as fast on his feet ,coupled with a great chin and crushing power in both hands ,succumb to Louis in an EARLY round.? Why couldn't a much greater and faster Jack Dempsey accomplish what a much lesser fighter than Arturo Godoy do were they to have fought? It smacks of a lack of respect of the great Manassa Mauler by you,not shared by boxing historians who saw the prime Jack Dempsey, and declared him at least the equal of Joe Louis. P.S. I would defend the great Joe Louis as well if someone with an axe to grind, constantly declared that "Dempsey would crush Joe Louis in a ONE SIDED fight "...They BOTH belong to the ages, in spite of some detractors of Jack Dempsey....
Nice to see that. However, being an old timer is no rationale to place Dempsey at #1. He has absolutely no business there whatsoever, even in '78. It does surprise me that he ranked Ali that high, though. Usually it takes a few years for legacies to grow.