Jack Johnson's Chin?

Nice thread

First I think that it was a head shot that put Johnson out in the Choynski bout. But my only reasoning is that in Johnson's book, he says how Joe was the only person to put him in "dream land". Im assuming that means Johnson was out cold, or at least half way there. And I would assume that a head shot would put him in "dream land" rather than a body shot. I'll have to find the book and take another look.


But yes, other than that, Johnson has shown that he had a great chin throughout his career. I know that he did not get hit that much. At least not compared to other fighters of his time. When he was older he had no scars or marks on his face. He did not suffer from being "punch-drunk". He was still sharp as an old man. So I know that he did not recieve a lot of damage. And it seems like the damage he did recieve, he was able to take.


I think he deserves more credit for taking all of Jeffries punches. But then again, everyone looks so harmless on old footage.

 

I think that at the very worst, Johnson has a chin on par with Lennox Lewis, who despite being KOd twice actually has a good chin. But i actually think it is a quite a bit better, made so though a little by his excellent chin and his body positioning which means he rarely gets nailed hard and clean. It isnt Ali or Jeffries level, but it is certainly a lot better than Wladimir Klitchsko or Jim Corbett. I think it is probably about on par with a Joe Louis or Tyson, maybe just a touch below, but not much. Actually maybe a Sonny Liston Chin would be the best analogy.

 

Liston had an excellent chin though.
The Ali KnockDown is too controversial to judge,
He was green against Marshall, and that was mostly a flash knockdown and a balence shot.
The only FLUSH shot he took was when he got KO'd by Leotis martin...

 

That is my point. sodid johnson

 

Okay, I thought you were saying that Liston had a so-so chin :good

 

Jackie John's chin was fine............. If you get nailed on the chops ny a puncher who is a solid 190 pounds or more, you are going down or at least staggering about the ring...... No shame in getting KO'd if hit on the button by a reputable puncher 190 or + pounds....... WORD!

MR.BILL

 

I think good but not great ... Choynski hit like a ton of brinks and caught him ... he caught Jeffries and Fitz s well and did not put them out ...

He was dropped by Ketchel although to me it looked like an intentional dive.
He was badly hurt by Gunboat Smith in a well known exhibition.
He was badly hurt by Jim Johnson and almost out at the bell of their bout ...
He was KO'ed by Willard

That being said in so many bouts he did only lose by KO as you noted ... JOhnson was an exceptionally bright, tremendous defensive fighter ... let's keep in mind that Roy Jones went an entire career without us knowing about his chn as he was rarely tested ..

I think JOhnson was like a Lennox Lewis .. if caught right he could go ... however catching him when focused and with his A game is a tremendous challange ..

 

Wlad has not been down in years, and he does not have a good chin. Forget the dates here, Chins are best tested when they are hit by punchers. Fighting clumsy contenders, old fighters, or teenagers does not count. Johnson's clinch and mug safety first style is one often employed by fighters with suspect chins.

The best punchers Johnson fought that were not old / past their best, teenagers, 156 pounds, lacking experience, or clumsy white hope types were Klondike, Choynski, Griffin, Hart, Burns, Kethcel, Smith ( 4 round exh TKO ), Jim Johnson, and Willard.

Each on the the above men, with the exception of Burns ( though some sources suggest Burns broke Johnson's ribs ) either hurt Johnson with punches, floored him, or knocked him out. All of them, with the the exception of Jim Battling Johnson and Willard had best fighting weight of under 210 pounds. If Choynski could score a clean 1 punch KO to the head, could you imagine what a clean shot from Dempsey, Marciano, or Louis could do?

Johnson never fought and absorbed punches from the likes Sam Mcvey, Joe Jeanette, or Sam Langford when they were at their peak as heavyweights from 1908-1914, nor did he fight Harry Wills after Johnson lost to Willard.

Judging by the films, and news reads vs. the experienced live bodies he fought, combined with his safety first style, Johnson's chin was average. In the context of lineal heavyweight champions, Johnson's chin would not rate in the top half of the list. In fact it would be at the very bottom of anyone's top ten list.

Anyone care to post their top ten, and tell me where they think Johnson's whisker's would place?

 

I completely agree with your opening points ... I do feel that Johnson fought many good , big men in his pre-title days and survived them well enough ... I feel , different than many, that he fought more dangerous Langford at 156 when Langford was lightning fast as well as hard punching ... the Jeannete and McVey were also physically prime if not at their peak of experience ..

AS far as rating his chin , like I said, good but not great ... a Lewis , well above a Wlad ...

 

I don't think Jim Johnson had Jack in that kind of trouble and Choynski had Fitz practically out according to some reports.

 

Mendoza,
I am sorry, but you cannot possibly be impressed with Wlad's chin, can you. Like many others, i give Wlad his dues for improving and putting together an impressive reign, even if he is still beating largely unproven fighters for the most part, i do think that he is putting together a good legacy.

But honestly, you cannot possibly be impressed with his chin, can you? I watched the some of the purity fight for the first time in ages. I was always told that this was a loss to exhaustion and not punching. Well i am sorry, but the guy had no exhaustion problems until he was hit on the chin. That was a stoppage, for all intensive purposes. Brewster is exactly the same. He was dominating the fight, until he was caught with a big shot. And Sanders is the worst of all. I have been told that his new style makes him unbeatable, stops exhaustion and makes it impossible for small fighters to reach him.

Well i am sorry, but I watched Sanders Wlad recently and Sanders hit Wlad at will when he was in close. Wlad tried the jab and grab in that fight, and it didnt matter, because he didnt have the power to stop Wlad from walking in and hitting him. And it wouldnt matter whether Sanders had an 80 inch reach or a 68 inch reach, the result would have been the same, and Wlad was simply too hurt once the big shots landed to grab, and it was ineffective because sanders would step through his straight punches anc clinch attempts and land hard himself.

Lennox Lewis, despite being kod twice, can be seen taking huge shots, I havent seen Wlad do the same. When he his hit, he doesnt necessarilly go down (like Johnson did with Ketchell and presumably/possibly Choynski), his legs just go to absolute jelly and can barely stand up. I feel confident in saying that Wlad has the worse chin i have ever seen from a heavyweight champion. In fact, if Stanley Ketchell landed the shot he knocked johnson down with, he beats Wlad in the fight. Likewise Choynski. In fact, if they land, Flynn, Moran, Langford, McVey, Ancient Jeffries etc all beat Wlad. I am not saying they necessarilly would land, because he is quite effective nowadays, but if they do land, they will finish him off. I think he is one of the worst head to head fighters around, despite his impressive size and offence.

 

The likes of Klondike, Choynski and Ketchel obviously are all huge punchers though. I think his chin is better than he is given credit for, especially when he filled out as a proper heavyweight. I don't see it as a major liability, anyway.

 

Why was Klondike OBVIOUSLY a huge puncher?

 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9806E1D6103FE633A25753C2A9649D946296D6CF

Fitz got up to dominate the bout .. Johnson was counted out ... huge difference.