If it is true that Evander uses PEDs, then he has no heart. Not in the way you think

Tyson transformed big time out of prison, he looked 'skinny and fat' when he was released. I also wouldn't be suprised if allot of Tyson's mood swings throughout his career were the result of hormone use.

Lewis gained an awful lot of muscle in his career, always a prime specimen but did bulk up. Not saying he was taking, but he may have been

 

It isn't "wrong" if some are expensive.

A regular regiment of PEDs can get very expensive, particularly if it is upper level and harder to trace. Primobolen is about $500 for a 3 month regiment.

 

Why are you just making stuff up about Mike Tyson you nobhead..? why are you just chatting utter ****, for some unknown reason..?

Mike Tyson when he came out of jail, was weighing 190 pounds +, because all he was doing in jail was eating tins of tuna, because he was afraid of being poisoned. Plus he was working out quite allot too, in jail...............

Mike Tyson was not skinny or fat when he came out of jail, i don't know why you are making this **** up.

 

I think people have to be more grown up about it.

PEDs are wrong but they are a part of just about every sport. Some of them are legal and others illegal.

There hasn't been a track and field finalist, Tour de France competitor or top pro in any sport from the last 30 years who isn't on something.

I don't like it but there are many child prodigies from the 80s who were pumped full of them. It's got more sophisticated now...

Problem is even when an athlete is caught out his/her fans still won't accept the obvious. Watch the 100M final, boxing title fight, etc from 1970's and then one from now... It's sad but that's modern sport.

 

what about ike ibeabuchi?the president look like he was juicing serious...

 

Firstly if you wanted an undetectable, quick out your system roid you certainly wouldn't choose Primobolan. Secondly you could get the gear for less than that, but that aside $150 a month is sweet FA for any pro boxer

Another thing is anyone taking a 3month course, and dropping off pre-fight to avoid detection will suffer from severe hormonal shut down, meaning their strength would plummet like the titanic on speed

 

I'm taking the word of his nutritionist, rightly or wrongly, what are you basing your claims upon?

 

You're forcing me to find evidence. From SteriodsPlace.com...

"For athletes who wish to maintain a "natural" status in competition, the tablets are quite well-suited as detection chances for the acetate-form are quite slim. However tests have improved and quite a number of metabolites1 of Primobolan/Methenolone can be detected with a simple urine sample. But an English study documented that there is a liability in eating Primobolan/Methenolone contaminated meats2, which could provide a possible defense if found out. One could always claim they ate the meat of a chicken or cow injected with Primobolan/Methenolone since the test concluded eating such meat does not improve performance, but can deliver positive tests for several methenolone metabolites almost 24 hours after ingestion. That's for those of you seeking a viable defense against a possible methenolone-positive..."

 

I think that defense is a pretty spurious 1 that would have a hard time holding up, especially in the EU. I don't know the half life of Primo tabs off the top of my head, but I remember the injections take months to get out your system

 

I doubt money is the problem. Not too long ago, I read a research that showed the vast majority of steroids-users are amateur bodybuilders. Yes, the meat heads that you see in clubs. It may cost 100-200 dollars per month, but that's hardly unaffordable. Again, look at Bob Hazelton. A clubfighter if there ever was one, yet he had the money to get enough steroids to completely destroy himself.

You don't sound as harsh on Toney as you were on steroid users in general. About Holyfield you basically said his entire legacy would be void if he was a proven user. Toney is a three-time proven user, why don't you think his legacy is void?

If it's not about recalibrating the risk then what is it about?

How about I "turn the other cheek?" That's what Freddy Roach did when Toney juiced himself up.

And yes, I guarantee that those who do use them, do so because they believe they're at an unfair advantage. That's why Holyfield's comments of "I'm not on them, but that Tyson guy, when I fought him, I believe he was using them" was pretty much a confession.

Tommy Morrison said the same thing.

I agree, which is why I don't think Holyfield's legacy is damaged much by his steroid use.

 

I'm no juice-head. I don't know how prevalent this stuff in boxing, and neither do you, but I do know that if you're a serious juice-head, it gets expensive.

"Expensive" is a relative term, though. (And to be sure, I tend to look at the spiritual cost as much as the economic cost.)

Let me clear up the confusion. If the preponderance of the evidence (or some other reasonable level of proof) demonstrates that Holyfield used PEDs throughout his HW career, then he is a cheater and deserves to have his legacy adjusted accordingly. Same for Toney. As it is, Toney's win over Ruiz has been declared an NC.

That is just. He deserves more of a consequence, but in terms of that particular win, it is and should be a NC.

Do you agree?

It's about alot of things. It's about holding cheaters accountable. It's about doing what can be done to provide safeguards for boxers. It's about deterrence.

'Turning the other cheek' means something very different than 'turning a blind eye.'

Tommy Morrison said that he was on the stuff throughout his career. Tommy Morrison acknowledged that he cheated in most if not all of his fights before he retired.

I fully recognize that those fighters who use, excuse their use because their opponents "may" be on them too. That's called rationalizing. They are rationalizing their conduct to free themselves up to engage in it, although it is wrong. Hell, its even worse than that... they are externalizing blame based on assumptions that may or may not be accurate.

Let's take that cynicism in the ring and examine it as a hypothetical: You are a boxer and have been on a regular regiment of high end, barely detectable, PEDs. Your strength, power, speed, and recuperative powers have dramatically heightened. You deny using them to avoid fines and suspensions but justify using them because your opponents may be using them. At the end of your latest bout, your opponent dies as a result of a subdural hemorrage. Severe trauma to the brain. His autopsy reveals that the closest he ever got to PEDs ...was broccoli. How do you feel?

You agree...? Your position, then, is this: 'Since everyone cannot be held accountable, then no one should.'

...the barbarians are crashing the gates.

 

While a good point, don't boxers typically feel terrible regardless of whether they've PED'ed, Nigel Benn and Ezzard Charles felt pretty terrible. Isn't that pretty much what you're training to achieve by punching with bad intentions and becoming as strong/powerful as humanly possible to achieve.

In actual fact a more powerful puncher may be less likely to kill their opponent than a sustained beating from a lighter puncher. The bigger puncher is able to concuss their opponent more easily, which sounds like they'd do more damage, but blood clots typically develop from sustained beatings from what we see.

Whats your stance on sport legal supplements that enhance power/strength - they have the same purpose. Its just taking training/nutrition to the next scientific level. I'm not a big fan of PEDs, I like to think my fave sport stars are winning clean and don't want to see terrible side effects of over use, which would happen if they were legalised, much like it is in Pro Bodybuilding. Personally I don't use PEDs, but in old age I may tinker about to rejuvinate some youthful hormones.

 

Good point about Ezzard et al. Many of them were devestated. They'd have been more devestated, barring the sociopaths, had they artificially and secretively enhanced their natural abilities.

Amen and absolutely.

Thus the octagon is safer than the ring.

I am no expert on supplements. I only know that boxing is a very dangerous human activity without enhancements. Although it may not be so realistic, I hope that boxing becomes the strictest and the cleanest sport in terms of PEDs on the planet.

I wish Floyd's cause well...

I hear you about the tinkering when you get old. As for me, hell, I don't even like to take aspirin.