1. Walcott 51-16-2 & 51-17-2 2. Charles 80-10-1 & 80-11-1 3. Moore 148-19-9 4. Louis 69-2-0 5. LaStarza 37-0-0 & 53-3-0 6. Layne 34-1-2 7. Cockell 66-11-1 8. Matthews 81-3-5 9. Savold 93-39-3 10. Reynolds 51-9-2 11. Muscato 56-20-0 12. Beshore 30-12-1 13. Shkor 29-18-2[FONT="] [/FONT]
Ali Foreman Frazier Liston Norton Patterson Williams Terrell Bonavena Shavers Quarry I apologize if I made a mistake or if I misranked a fighter or such. I know a lot but not as much as the veterans of this board.
No problem Tony. :good I wouldn't include Williams on Ali's list, though. He had very, very little left. People say Walcott was old, but going by Cleveland's (gunshot) condition at that time, he looked closer to 60 years of age..
Ali 1. Foreman 40-0-0 2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 7. Bonavena 46-6-1 8. Ellis 30-6-0 9. Folley 74-7-4 10. Terrell 38-4-0 11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 12. Lyle 30-2-1 13. Shavers 54-5-1 14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. 16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. 17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 18. Moore 184-22-11 19. Young 17-4-2 20. Williams 65-5-1 21. Jones 21-3-1 22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 23. Leon Spinks 7-0-1 [FONT="] [/FONT]
Well I agree with you, but people kept saying that it was prime Ali's best victory or such, and that this is the peak Ali, so I just had to put him there.
Henry Hsscup has it right. Although I would throw Carmine Vingo in there based on potential alone. Freddie Beshore was a gooftrooper.
THANKS! I didn't include Vingo because you can't go by potential. He did have a lot of potential, But he never fought a scheduled bout that was over 6 rounds until he fought Rocky and was only 2 days past his 20th birthday. I couldn't go by what could have been, But I was thinking about putting him at #14. By the way, a writer friend of mine wanted to know if he was still a live. I did some research and found out that he was and was living in Florida. I gave my friend his address and phone number.
You have such a Marciano bias it makes me think you're a Suzie Q alias Yes Rocky took on 4 ATGs, but all were past it and only 2/3 were ATGs at HW Lennox took on Tyson, Holyfield (twice), Prime Vitali - all ATGs at HW without a doubt Layne may have been a good top3 fighter, do you know how many top3 fighters Lewis beat? He was fighting top5 fighters year on year for 10 years pretty much. What makes Layne better than Vitali? Tua? Rahman? Golota? Rudduck? Bruno? Morrison? Mercer? I don't see it Rocky's got very good comp, he took on the best of a 5year period but it doesn't get close to the comp of Lennox/Holyfield/Ali/Louis - not close.
PowerPuncher, If I am so bias when it comes to Marciano..then how come I only rate him 5th all time and pick multiple heavyweight champions to beat him H2H? Based on your reputation, I wouldn't call others bias. You rate Jones way higher than most do, and claim he had a better left hook than Sugar Ray Robinson's. LOL.
Fair list ... my point is that while I consider Marciano a great fighter because of the skills I saw in the ring I can say he is the only fighter I consider great that never fought a great fighter ... Basically six names of any value make this list. Two of them were decent fighters but nothing special (LaStarza and Layne) ... four were great (Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore) but not when Rocky fought them. Rocky was the young turk fighting the men past their own primes. All lacked legs and all paid for it against a younger, stronger man who was in his own prime. I'm not going to get into nasty crap with the usual suspects that will attack for making this point or try and say Rocky's Fab Four were great when he fought them. The vast majority of fans know the deal. This is a serious thread. My question is has there ever been another heavyweight great that never fought another prime great at any time in his career.
Sorry for insulting you Suzie, just trying to think of an alias to reflect such bias, but its probably just a Rocky fan. Fair enough we're all fans with our biases and Rocky is a great fighter, but bias of other fans rubs us all wrong too thats why we all fight so much But yes you're right if Roy Jones did 1 thing well it was maybe the greatest P4P left hook of all time :good