Manny Pacquiao vs. Prince Naseem Hamed

No he wasn't.

The KD from Torres WAS a push, even though he nearly had him out just before.

As far as I know, Cotto was never KD at 140. Bar the push from Torres, which was, as I say, after a frightful barrage that nearly had Miguel out of there.

So you check that again:good:hey

 

Didnt Corley have him on the floor? Either way he was hurt quite a bit at 140.

 

Corley staggered him with a temple shot that had his legs all over the shop, he was stunned a few times in his fights, and personally I feel he added some durability when he moved up to Welter, not sure that 140 Cotto would've taken some of the shots he took against JUdah in the early going.

But he was only dropped once, from a push (but as I say, that was probably for the best because Torres battered him from corner to corner)

But as we know, Corley caused Floyd a few problems too.

 

This was the overall point regardless of how many times he hit the floor. :good

 

Fair point, but you did say he was KD'd many times as well, felt the need to pull you up bro:good:good:good

 

No problem. Personally I think Cotto is getting to the point that its not going to matter what he weighs anymore. Hes really not a big guy physically, 5'6-5'7 in reality so 154 is starting to push it. Even though he looked pretty dominant against Foreman I still think he has chin problems once hes in with a capable puncher.

 

I'm not certain he has big 'chin problems' myself. He can eat a fair amount of leather. His problem, like Jermain Taylor, is that he has a stylistic weakness that is clearly evident; if you can continue pressurising him then he falls apart within the 12.

Cotto has a vulnerability about him; not good when you're mixing with the opposition he has. Even if he hasn't got the best chin (that's clear to see) I think he makes up for it with heart and resilience. He showed that getting up on shaky legs after the 4th rnd KD he suffered against Pac, which, if he'd had a bad chin, would've wiped him out completely IMO.

Like you,I think he was able to outmanouver Foreman not due to the weight, but due to the styles. I think there are still fighters at 147 he could look that good against. For example, Berto has few advantages. Cotto would still, excuse the term, 'school' him IMO. Cotto's problem is that he isn't durable enough to keep up what he is good at; pressure fighting. So he resorts to boxing which he is adept at but not brilliant at.

He's become a jack-of-all-trades master of none, which, as I say, with his obvious deficiencies, does not bode well for him from here on in. He could probably beat t apressure fighter of the calibre of say, Chavez Jr IMO, but I wouldn't want to see him in with anymore ballsy offensive operators that we'd consider 'Elite' calibre.

 

Bigger guys coming down from 160+ that stagger him or hurt him might not let him off the hook once he gets up. I think Steward recognizes this and thats why there will be a more consistent boxing Miguel Cotto from here out. Even if he rematches Pac, I think we see a different fighter, but Im not sure his chin has enough left to take any kind of serious shots. Watching him against Foreman I kind of sensed there was something not right about him regardless of how one sided the fight was.

 

I just think that Miguel is making changes too late; once clipped and pressured he will revert to his true self, which is why I'm not for a rematch with Pac at any weight. It will be no different, except Cotto might pick up one round extra.

 

You said this:

So,

PowerPuncher is quite clearly stating here that:


A -

This content is protected

and

B -

This content is protected

And that's all we need to know. I'm happy to leave it at that. :smoke

 

A - I don't believe Cotto was drained making 147. If that was the case, why did he come in under the limit for the Clottey fight?

B - 1 pound still wouldn't make a significant difference even if he did have to drain to make 147, which I don't believe was the case anyway. You guys are criminally overstating how much 1 pound is. Yeah, it's 1 pound more and where do you draw the line blah blah blah bull****, but as I've said over and over again, going through a 10-week training camp to make 145 is NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS going to leave you weaker than going through a 10-week training camp to make 146. Sorry, no.

 

If a fighter is killing themselves to make weight and drying themselves out everyday and not eating, they could very well come in one two, three pounds under the limit. The damage is done in the process of pulling the weight down and a lot of it has to do with where they started from. If Cotto was in relatively good shape before entering camp, then it doesnt have as big of an affect, but if he started at 175 pounds yes it could be a difference. Having a couple pounds cushion may also make the process not as extreme, but as in the case of ODLH who had no business fighting in the mid 40's he had to kill himself to make the weight and basically had nothing left, and this was coming off a fairly active schedule.

 

Yet again, this argument veers off course whenever people are trying to prove themselves right. Leaving all generalizations and hypotheticals and standard rules out of the equation, and focusing instead on the fighter and the fight and the circumstances in question, Miguel Cotto came in at 146 vs Clottey, 1 pound lighter than he needed to, and there was nothing said about being drained or weakened, nor had there been for any of his other ww fights. Then he goes through a similar training camp to come in at 145. Sorry, but there is just no way to spin this with any legitimacy that Cotto was affected in the ring by this 1 pound difference.

 

Popkins tactics:

1. When faced with logic and reason completely ignore it, delete parts of quotes and keep shouting about how right you are

2. When you're getting owned on 1 topic change the topic to a prior topic that's completely unrelated, then you won't have to debate the argument your losing

2. When you personally prove yourself wrong by actually finding a quote disproving yourself(great going Einstein), put fabricated words in your opponents mouth - that should work

Utter **** Tricks

 

Your comparing two different fighters. Against Pac clearly he needed to be at his best optimum weight. Theres a reason why Freddie Roach made him come in at 145 dont you think? Besides he looked like **** against Clottey at 146, maybe thats what Roach saw, and thought to himself I want him at that weight, so Ill make him come in a pound lighter??

Im not saying it would have mattered but the one thing that's clear, is that Roach and company were looking for an advantage, even though they spun it as an even playing field, because Pac is and was very strong in prior and post welterweight fights.
Roach basically admits to it in a video posted up on youtube, which Im sure youve seen floating around in the general?