Greb struggled with Bogash. Kid Gavilan is better than Bogash for my money, and he is much taller. Additionally, I was talking about the style rather than the man - but I have absolutley no doubt that Gavilan could do as well with Greb, if not better, than Bogash did. Greb is a top 4 pound for pound lock IMO, I rank him #2 in the forever, but this "he beat heavyweights so he could beat.." **** has to stop. Robinson would be the best composite puncher that Greb had ever fought. Robinson is in deep water? Hell yes. Greb is in deep water? Anyone who doesn't believe that is deluded. I don't see any reason, at all, why a pick for Robinson over Greb is anything other than good business. The reverse? Also true.
Undecided but I think the David that beat Golliath clearly proved he has the style to offset both men
I'm picking Ray Robby cuz I have footage up the yin and yang of his........... When it comes to Harry Greb, all I have is press clippings and still photos, etc..... C'mon, do the math here........ Was Greb really more skilled or powerful than Jake LaMotta, Rocky Graziano, Carl Olson, Randy Turpin, Carmine Basilio or Eugene Fullmer? Greb had a good muscular build with big biceps for a 155 to 160 pounder, but Greb was never known to be a wicked "One-Shot" banger....... Greb was an aggressive unit with average defensive skills......... Ray Robinson of pre 1953 is just too much of a complete fighter with too much speed, skill, reflex, power, savvy and charisma to get beat by the grude Harry Greb......... MR.BILL:deal
McGrain, first of all,I regard Ray Robinso as by far the greatest fighter I ever saw in his prime.I saw Robby at his peak 4 or 5 times...Poetry in motion...Perfect picture fighter... But looking at the astounding, yes astounding career of Harry Greb,I along with many others happen to believe, that as great a fighter Robinson was, he would not be able to cope and SURVIVE, the many great Light Heavies ,and heavies that the Pittsburgh Windmill licked..No way.. Greb ,though not a picture fighter as Robby, had a style and boxing career that was unique,in boxing history... I mean this question to you in all respect as I value your opinions... Do you think that Ray Robinson as a middleweight coulkd have beaten such 175 pounders as Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran,Tommy Gibbons, Jack Dillon,Gunboat Smith, Battling Levinsky, Maxie Rosenbloom,and heavier men as Willie Meehan,Bill Brennan, Joe Cox,etc,as the rugged Harry Greb did numerous times ?Of course not...Doesn't this roster of great 175 pounders cause you McGrath to reconsider your opinion ?? One other thing Kid Gavilan who I saw a couple of times in MSG was at best 147 pounds in his career, while hiughly regarded Louy Bogash who fought everyone on equall terms scaled ten pounds more in his career,and would have been too big for the Welter Gavilan IMO...
Burt, it doesn't matter that Greb would do better against bigger men. Secondly, there is no reason to believe that Gavilan, who beat good middleweights, would struggle with a 5'5 147lb Bogash, whom he would tower over.
Greb was on a bender a showed raggedly vs Bogash but won clearly. Damon Runron was amoung the group of gambers fooled/burned by Greb the night before the Walker fight. Runyons praize of Greb was "missing" till his dying day as he was a very mean sob.
Robinson said he was willing to fight heavyweights while still a middleweight. In taht regard he was smiliar to Greb he didnt do it though, bet he went on record saying he was willing to fight heavyweights while still 152lbs.
McGrath,I don.t want to beat this to death, but you are incorrect about Lou Bogash,weighing 147 pounds..Lou was born in 1901,and when he fought Harry bGreb in 1923, Bogash weighed 163 pounds[not 147 lbs] for the fight...Soon after the very strong blond Bogash was fighting at 170-173 pounds for the rest of his long career..Bogash was very strong and won 101 fights in his career...Keep punching...
Greb. Higher weight for Robinson, stylistic issues for Robinson, and Greb is of course an incredible P4P competitor himself in terms of ability and physical talent. This one is just not SRR's fight to win.
I'm not saying that Bogash weighed 147 when he fought Greb. I'm saying that if Kid Gavilan had a fight against Lou Bogash at 147lbs, Bogash would be the smaller man at the weight. If Bogash weighed 162, i'd still favour a 155lb Gavilan to beat him. I think a 155lb Gavilan would be a tougher ask for most MW's than Bogash at 160. Gavilan was just better for me. I took an interest in Bogash about a year back, and my guess is that his best performances were against Britton, where he may have been very unlucky, and over the longer distance against Bartfield, where he also weighed in at around the 147 limit. I think he was artifical above 160, and perhaps even 150, as demonstrated by his diminishing returns at the weight, highlighted most of all by the domination Flowers enjoyed over him. If he was comfortable at 170, he would possibly be the first man of 5'5 to be so in the history of the fight game...I don't believe it was the case. EDIT: I checked, and Bogash actually weighed a half pound above the WW limit for Bartfield in the fight I am talking about. But around here was his best weight IMO.