Why the insult, did I hurt your feelings? I can see why you're touched by our team being a bullying one. Your boy started crying about stomach cramps last time that happened. Let's not forget that Clay, Douglas, Rahman and Leonard had to work hard to accomplish that. Hindsight is always 20/20; they were underdogs going in, so more so than others. Disagree. Leonard's actions defined Duran's reactions. Leonard made him quit. Let's not pretend it's not Leonard's accomplishment.
Yes; when it comes to Duran you're almost as bad as duranimal at making completely insane claims, and yet you try and take the moral high ground over those you accuse of Duran nuthuggery?
I must say, I like Leonard's candidness. He admits he counted on Duran blowing up in weight, that he challenged Hagler when he had slowed visibly and that Hearns relly won their rematch. Fighters are generally much more prone to make excuses for the fights they lost than they are to admit the advantages they acquired or was given.
Leonards fighting guts & charector have never been in doubt.......it's just the sly underhand way he then & later went about things....OK as you say anything goes to get an edge......agreed:good but don't kid yerself that makes you the main man when all things ar'nt equal....this discussion really is about a level playing field & IMO it was'nt, Duran's to blame we know:yep But it has to be put into the context of what would have happened if thay fought in the January of 81 instead of 80.....who knows? proberbly Leonard would have won a S/D or close UD but the way he fought in New Orleans gives me to the mind that he was still truamatised at what happended to him in Montreal & it still stayed with him in 89 at the Mirage when he promised to KO an old pudgy Duran but fled for all 12 rounds for an easy UD whilst boo's rained down upon him I've nothing but the greatest respect for Leonard after that pounding he took in Montreal & the way he finished the fight proved beyond doubt that he was a vicious tough mean ****er & it goes down IMO as one of the greatest losing performences of all time... I've always maintained that while others have been hoodwinked & without doubt wanted to be part of the sweet/new ALI image that the Leonard team were selling the public underneath lies a mean spirited nasty killer, which of course was an absolute must have if you were to survive never mind succed in that division in those times. Leonard never actually wanted part of Duran so soon but it was down to Janks Morten who pushed him into it telling him about Duran's lunitic lifestyle...hence the trap was laid.... There's none tougher & mean as SRL & when you consider he was being comprehensivly out boxed against Hearns & staring certain defeat in the face he came back with that mind bending 13th round to rip victory from the jaws of certain defeat. Also bare in mind that Leonard was anything but confident about beating Hearns as he jumped up to 154 to grab the Lt/Middle Title as an insurance against defeat before he fought Hearns.
Sorry but lightweight to welterweight is not that big of a jump. Even less of when comparing a lightweight Benny Leonard or Pernell Whitaker against a middleweight such as Marvin Hagler. Even welterweight to middleweight. Again Whitaker vs. Hagler. Speaking of Hagler when Roberto Duran fought him. He was no longer a lightweight. His last seven fights before were fought at the light middleweight leavel. Daring back to Aug 9, 1981. He fought Hagler on Nov 10, 1983. That's slightly more than three years. When he fought Sugar Ray Leonard for the first time he realy wasn't a lightweight either. Eight previous fights he fought at welterweight, dating to March 27, 1979. The Leonard fight was June 20, 1980. That's over a year. Leonard acatuly beat Hagler.
Apparently you've lost the ability to type, so I'll repeat my earlier point: How would other great H2H Lightweights do against SRL? Not well. Oh right. So Duran had basically grown himself a natural Middleweight frame, and his Lightweight history means nothing? So If Leonard were to put on 80 pounds and start fighting Heavyweights for a few years, it would be natural to expect him to be competing on even terms with the best in the division?
Parts of this post show ,perception and the ability to read fights,which is all the more baffling when the rest of your input is digested. Which beggars the question. Why are you so crassy impolite ,not to mention downright obnoxious to other posters ? It can't be your surroundings,Bournemouth is an old fogies resort, hardly the Bronx, or the Gorbals. I am not patronising you ,but can you not moderate some of the anger that erupts from you? Save it for when it is really called for,it loses all effectiveness and dramatic impact when it featuers in all your posts.
Well, if it's that simple then why are we so harsh on Duran ? If Leonard's performance is really awesome enough so that on his own merit "he made Duran quit", then it would be excusable for Duran to quit. Were Duran's reactions good and natural in the face of Leonard's actions ? If so Duran should be absolved of any disgrace if he was really forced by the weight on Leonard's performance to quit.
:good Leonard certainly deserves credit for the win, and for evening the score and reversing his only loss at that point, and regaining the title. But it's clear he didn't beat a great opponent that night.
Prenell Whitaker and Benny Leonard are vetter boxers than Reberto Duran. So is Floyd Mayweather Jr. I wou;d give them all a greater chance to beat Ray Leonard of the second Duran fight than I'd give Duran. One thing that I'm confident about stating is none of them would have quit. Is Mayweather a superfeatherweight? What about Manny Pacquiao? People grow they gain weight even as adults. It is not uncommon for boxers to start their careers below their natural weight to gain height advantages. For all we know Duran is a natural welterweight. Both Mayweather and Pacquiao are big for the lighter weights they started their careers at. Who knows how long they have been at natural weights. This doesn't take away from any acomplishments, but the reality is that adults grow. We add weight as we get older. When did Duran add 80 Lbs to fight Hagler? 160 -135 = 25.
I think Duran quit because he knew how the fight was going to go, and thought that bailing out would be better than going through it. Basically, he didn't come in top shape and he quickly realized that Leonard had. He was meeting an extremely motivated and determined opponent, who was making full use of his advantage in speed, and Duran knew he wouldn't be able to pin down a bigger faster fighter who was intent on boxing and moving all night long, so the choice was to keep ploughing on ineffectually and lose a very wide decision, or to turn his back. He turned his back.
You're blind. Mayweather is nowhere near Duran. The Leonard of the first fight would have beaten all of them soundly. The Leonard of the first fight was the best Leonard all-round. atsch Duran spent 7 years at Lightweight. It was his best weight where he spent most of his prime. And you think 147 was more natural for him? No, but your argument was that, as long as X has had multiple fights at a particular weight, they're a natural at that weight, which is completely absurd.
Why are you confident about stating that? Duran was in with one of the very very best fighters ever, who was in rampant, rampaging form, and Duran knew he could not win the fight, and was facing a long night of being clearly outboxed and outclassed. Floyd Mayweather would never, ever even dream of putting himself in that position, especially against a naturally bigger man. If there was a Leonard calibre fighter around now, Mayweather would retire before he would fight him, but even if he did fight him, how can you be confident that Floyd wouldn't quit? Floyd has never, ever been in the position that Duran was in, because he has always fought opponents who were inferior to him. If Floyd was in the ring with a bigger, faster, hungrier opponent intent on embarrassing him, and found himself getting completely outfought, how the hell can you be confident that Floyd wouldn't quit?? You have absolutely no basis for being confident of that at all. No-one can know how Floyd would react to that, one reason being he would never ever allow himself to be in that position, another reason being he wouldn't be able to put himself in that position even if he wanted to because there is no-one remotely close to Ray Leonard's level in boxing now.