Behold your false god, Roberto Duran

Maybe they would. But how many of them beat a fighter of the calibre of prime Sugar Ray Leonard, despite being older and smaller? How many would take a Marvin Hagler the distance in a close fight? How many won a middleweight title against a much younger man whilst in their late 30s? How many would fight across 4 decades?

Roberto Duran is a boxing legend for good reason - it's because he did things that NONE of those fighters could ever dream of achieving.

 

I agree. The film is clear as day between 66-67 Ali and 70-71 Ali. He struggled mightily and weirdly with Bonavena, and looked good but not great against Quarry. Cus D'Mato didn't even think Ali could come back after 3.5 years and beat the #1 contendor the way he did. Just says what a special athlete he was... but he was clearly declined. His footspeed wasn't the same. It wasn't as fast and he couldn't move for as long. Neither could he punch for as long without getting tired. And of course... his sharpness wasn't at the same level. I actually think there's more discernible difference between Ali's layoff than Tyson's.

Tyson at least had some explosion, and had a lot of his speed. The fact he was more technical, and not a fighter relying as much with his physical abilities and reflexes helped a lot. Cus even mentions why it's unfeasible for Ali to come back and beat a #1 contender for these reasons.

Ron Lyle says it well when he says once Ali came back guys were "getting at him and touching him a lot more."

 

I actually think Ali was better from 72-73 than he was from 70-71. He was fighting way more often with less time in between cleaning out the division and forcing a Frazier return. He was much sharper, and had completely ridded himself from ring rust. For those that say it's wrong to mark a decline from Ali's peak for the FOTC because it takes away from Frazier have to understand that it's no difference in the assumption that Frazier beats 66-67 Ali. As if there was no difference, and Frazier forces the same kind of fight. I see that often, which to me is worse than the supposed Ali apologist. At least say a Frazier fight with a younger Ali is more a 50-50 or something...

 

You are comparing a 30something lightweight to Hall of Famer younger welterweights and middleweights. How about comparing like with like? And why are you ignoring his dominant reign at lightweight during his prime? Or his title wins at jr middleweight and middleweight when he was pretty old? Not to mention he was the only guy to beat Leonard in his prime.

 

Here's the thing: all of the four kings - as they are referred to in George Kimball's great book - are underrated as a whole, with their legacies being largely (not exclusively, but largely) dependent upon their internecine relationships. Individually, each has their own rabid fanbase that overrates them. This creates backlash...and ultimately serves to further underrate the group as those annoyed by the cheer-leading of the individual fanbases look to deconstruct that individual's accomplishments, thus weakening one leg of the construct and bringing the other three down. When this is occurring on every corner...:-(

They're all great. Whether you think Hagler won or Leonard...whether you think Duran became only 20% of his peak self after moving up from lightweight...whatever your minor quibbles...you can not deny that all four deserve the full breadth of merit and recognition as, collectively, the greatest of their era. You can not. IB does not, can not, will not allow it.

 

Just like Sugar Ray Robinson lost multiple fights at middleweight and was defeated in his attempt on the LHW title. Or Spinks got starched in one round at HW. Or Charles got brutalized by Marciano.

Fighting bigger, younger, all-time greats is extremely difficult and the normal outcome is to be soundly beaten. Duran beat Leonard, had competitive close decision losses to Benitez and Hagler, and was only 2 rounds down in the Leonard II fight. Only Hearns, by far the hardest hitting welterweight ever, really embarrassed him. And in the midst of this he pounded the bigger, younger Davey Moore, and took the MW title from Iran Barkley at 37. He showed that even when out-sized, and too old, he could still win fights against tough opposition.

If he had come out ahead over the Fab Four then he would be rated better than Sugar Ray Robinson or Harry Greb.

 

At the same age Duran was winning a middleweight title.

 

Since boxing has been around for over 100 years, then by default only 10% of fighters are going to be from the last 10-15 years (arguably less, since boxing is less popular now). Putting more than 1 or 2 modern fighters in a top 10 ATG list is bias towards modern times. Putting 8 or 9 from 20+ years ago in the top 10 is simply reflecting the default statistical expectation.

Most of the top 10 lists here have at least 1 or 2 modern fighters from the last 20-30 years. So I don't see how accusations of fogeyism are justified.

 

Monzon is always in the top 2 or 3 at MW here. He's not underrated at all, in fact overrated as some people ludicrously put him above Greb.

I agree Napoles is overrated.

 

What? :fire

 

The kind of fluctuation you're pointing out is the same kind of fluctuation that took place between Ali's performances in '66-'67. Think of how awful he looked vs. Mildenberger and how unstoppage he looked vs. Williams. Ali may have looked poor vs. Bonavena because Bonavena was an awkward fighter - a tougher match-up than perhaps any Ali had had in his championship defences.

:-(

 

This shits getting boring

 

Roberto Duran is definitely one of the greatest lightweights in history. He'd make my top 10 at lightweight.
Number 1 would probably be Benny Leonard or Joe Gans, but I wouldn't argue if someone had Duran as number 1.

Above lightweight Duran was still pretty good, but he did quit like a bum in the second fight against Ray Leonard, and Benitez and even Kirkland Laing outboxed him fairly well.

 

I give Duran free passes personally...he needed a poo, Ray force fed him and had the cheek to want an immediate rematch. He didn't train for Benitez or Laing.

 

But Mosley only lost to Mayweather because he was old, had a lay-off, weight drained, and DLH only lost to Pacquiao because he was old, had a lay-off, weight drained, etc.... Nice and consistent, Addie! :good