Is Tyson in your Top 10 all-time heavies

no Marciano in your top 10? That's pretty controversial. Is your list only h2h?

 

In what conceivable fashion does Jack Johnson, who had a mediocre at best title reign and whose entire rep is based on fighting the same three or four guys over and over, rank above Tyson?

 

I'd have Rocky around eleventh. I count H2H and resume. No disrespect to Marciano. He was the best of his age,without doubt.

 

Now this one seems about as fresh as whether Duran was underprepared in the rematch against Leonard.

 

hahaha dude, there you go again.
He beat Frazier 2/3 times and made the first fight very close.
He was very faded vs Norton, and it seemed like Norton had a pretty good styleistic advantage. As far as I'm concerned, Ali won twice. That's where it ends. you can argue all you want, and so can Norton. Ali beat Norton twice. Once again, he was faded vs spinks and still beat him in the rematch.. He clearly beat Shavers, and as for Young, Holmes, and berbick, those fights don't even need to explained, you're just looking to insult Ali. Of course London, Lubbers, and Dunn aren't very good. But Marciano fought bums too, so don't even bring that up.
Don't let the Marciano-bull cloud your logic.

 

As for right now, I do not. I have Tyson around 11-13 and Vitali in the top 15. Though Vitlai's impressive comeback is making me re-evaluate his career.

The reason why Tyson is not in my top ten is, he not only lost to the three best fighters he fought, he was badly trashed and not even competitive vs Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis. There were signs of Tyson becoming undone as early as the Burno match, when a gun shy Burno visibly shook Tyson, and was a follow up of 1-2 solid shots to perhaps pulling off an upset.

Tyson was an explosive front runner with a questionable psyche when the going got rough. Though he took a good punch, he had more swelling and cuts issues than you'd think, and his prime was very short.

In the 1990's, Tyson was carefully managed. There were no matehces with Bowe, Foreman, Morrer, Morrison, Tua, Ike, and others. Why?

 

The reason why Johnson kept having repeat fights was because of the disgraceful colour bar. A lot of the top white fighters avoided men like Johnson,Langford and Jeanette like the plague. As best I could,I placed Johnson in a modern era,imagining his skills being adapted acoordingly. I think that he was better overall than Tyson.

 

youre not seriously using the lewis fight as an excuse for not having tyson in your all time top ten even stevie wonder could see tyson was completely shot to bits and tucker at the time he faced tyson was better than douglas who won when they fought only 2 months before tyson fought tucker everyone knew tysons training was basicly non existent for the douglas fight.

 

No, I am using it as an example of tyson getting thrashed by the top three fighters he fought. Stop with the excuses. Tyson was in shape for Douglas.

 

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Mike Tyson
4. Joe Frazier
5. George Foreman
6. Jack Johnson
7. Larry Holmes
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Lennox Lewis (barely)

 

Yes, without a doubt. Around the 8-10 mark.

 

I have Tyson at #7.
I think it's quite daft to have him below #10.

 

tyson was not in shape what on earth are you talking about he "going through japanese woman as if he was eating grapes" he was also dropped in training thats how serious his virtually non existent training was.

No doubt a prime tyson would have finished holyfield and lewis off with relative ease.

 

Certainly not mentally in shape. If you know anything about anything about this sport or any sport, it is the fact that you cannot perform to your full capabilities without you being mentally prepared.

As far as physical shape, maybe Tyson felt he was, but his actions during training proved other-wise. He may have gotten himself down to 220, but he was still over-weight arriving to camp, had to crash-diet to get his weight down, and even Douglas's own manager thought Tyson was over-weight when he arrived in Japan...and that's not long before the fight. Just because your weight says 220, doesn't mean it is going to be an affective 220...or in other words, the same 220+ that he had on him to fight Berbick with.

How was that the same Tyson that fought from Berbick to Spinks?

The version that showed up against Douglas gets KTFO by the Tyson that fought from Berbick to Spinks.


Yeah, Tyson was so prepared for that fight that he was overweight when he entered training camp. Tyson was so prepared for that fight that he had to crash-diet during training. Tyson was so prepared for that fight that he was getting lit-up by the likes of Trevor Berbick in sparring. Yeah, Trevor Berbick. The same Trevor Berbick that Tyson destroyed for the title at 20.

Not only that, it was reported Tyson's life-style while in Japan was very wild. And that his demeanor was very different this time around from the other time he was there, against Tony Tubbs. What was the difference?

Tyson didn't have the same trainer as he did when he won and unified the titles, which caused him not to prepare properly...he didn't have the same mental focus, which is key to winning...and just didn't want to fight anymore.

The Man even talked about retiring after Spinks.



Now if you want to say that is all Tyson's fault, and that Tyson is an idiot, especially given his vast knowledge of the sport's history, and he still made those same mistakes as past fighters....ABSOLUTELY. The Man was an idiot and deserved everything he got that night Buster beat the **** out of him.

 

Kind of doubt that as far as "relative ease."

Both Holyfield and Lewis are World Class fighters who are very strong mentally. Good fights I would expect.

And I know Rooney felt that Tyson would have knocked both Holyfield and Lewis out but I'm not sure you can expect anything less from him given his relationship with Tyson. Even with getting the boot, Rooney has basically stuck by him for the most part. So there is kind of a bias even though he knows his fighter.


I certainly do think however it would have been a different fight had they all been at their peak. Not saying Tyson wins, but certainly the odds (and I'm not talking Vegas odds), on his side would have been way up compared to when he ended up fighting Holyfield and Lewis.