Ali fraud...

All very salient points, allow me to welcome you ,you will be a tremendous asset to this Forum.:good





















It has lacked some humour for a considerable while.

 

People are going to laugh at this thread, and call you a troll and an idiot. I'm sure of that.

Personally, I think Ali is definitely among the top 10 heavyweights of all-time, on any reasonable list.
He was at his best in the mid-1960s, but I do think it's fair to include his 70s work (good and bad) in assessing him.

Prime for prime, I see Ali beating Tyson. And, yes, Ali WOULD get hit, but so too would Tyson. It's a fight. I think Ali would beat him.

I dont think Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all-time though. He's arguably number 2, though not necessarily. I dont think he come close to Joe Louis, to be honest.

 

So your reasoning as to why Ali isn't the greatest is because he lost fights? I was beginning to wonder though whether it's just a joke at the part where you compared Ali to Michael Spinks.

 

A lot of people will go really hard on you for this thread, not me, I'll just tell you kindly and quietly to go watch more Boxing. It's a great sport. :good

 

Any reasonable list would have Muhammad Ali no lower than second. I'm sorry, I don't give a god damn if you were a Joe Frazier fan or if you resent The Greatest for being brash and cocky, his resume speaks for itself. There is no way on god's Earth you can seriously justify having anyone other than Joe Louis above him, and even that is a stretch to my mind.

 

From what I saw, Clay was mocking Cooper and could have taken him out at any given time but was caught with a good hook that put him on his pants. I don't envision him treating a fighter like Tyson with the same contempt, and neither do I feel it's reasonable to be using this example to illustrate your point about Ali supposedly being a "fraud". He got up, brushed himself off, and brutalized Cooper in the next round, the same round he predicted the fight would end. Make of that what you will.

 

Biggest injustice in boxing history? Really...? Why don't you enlighten us with your score for that fight.

 

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

Pro boxing is more like pro wrestling than most of its adherents want to admit. And they fall for that silly, showboating, adolescent crap (which Ali's schtick was) hook, line and sinker. Then, decades later they try to lionize tripe poetry and second rate Gorgeous George impersonations as being some sort of landmark cultural/sporting apogee.

In the end Ali was a great heavyweight but one ran far too long on personality rather than ability, who was given far too much license to cheat in the ring, and far too much leniency on the scorecards.

Still, I rate him second among heavies, behind Louis. In regards to Messiah's, though, he's not even in my top-50.

 

I'll be honest, I though he lost at least 2 of 3 against Ken Norton, and that, among other factors, gives his rating quite a knock in my eyes.
A lot of his performances in the 70s were not good at all, and some of the opposition has been hyped beyond all reality.
I suppose a lot of it depends on criteria.
I might put him second to Louis, but not necessarily.

 

Then I couldn't care for your list, Unforgiven.

 

I favor Muhammad Ali to decisively outbox or stop the majority if not all of Louis' competitors. :good