Ali fraud...

Agreed...which is a big reason why he is my number 1 heavyweight of all time. But, Louis title reign was unfair to black fighters. He did defeat two hall of fame black contenders, but some very good ones were left out of the mix while a few gooftroopers managed to weasel their way into a title shot. Still, what Louis did was unbelievable.

 

Very true.

 

So serious. :rofl:rofl

 

So how is Louis number one when Ali was just as dominant and fought in a clearly better era :huh

 

Ali wasn't as dominant as Louis, but he did beat better fighters and that's all she wrote as far as I'm concerned.

 

Something that impresses me about both Ali and Louis is how many fighters of different styles they beat. They beat punches, boxers, swarmers, brawlers - all of them.

 

...The **** was printed in July 2001 edition of Russia Today! but whatever...

 

Louis was faster and hit more concussively. I'm sorry, people, but Joe Louis hit like a ****ing freight train. The best technique executed by a superior athlete equals the best power. His jab alone changed entire fights with its concussive power. I fully respect Foreman but guys got up after he hit them. With Joe, they went to the hospital.

 

Louis knocked the **** out of both Schmeling and Walcott in rematches. He beat Schmeling really bad inside 1 round, a rubber match would have been crazy. That's domination.
I dont think Ali was "realistically" (as you put it) 2-1 against Norton. On my personal scorecared he wasn't. He was 1-2 at best
I haven't seen the entire unedited 15 rounds of Walcott-Louis 1, (have you ?), so I dont know how the decision compares to Ali's over Norton.

 

Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Baer and Schmeling would all make my top 20, but possibly none of them would make my top 10.
Norton and Patterson wouldn't make the cut.

No, I do factor in the losses to Norton and Spinks though. But only in a direct comparison with Joe Louis and what he was doing when he was well past his best.

If Joe Louis wasn't around maybe one or two or three of the others would have put together championship reigns and become second-tier "greats". In all likelihood, that's excatly what would happen.
That's where this whole "quality of opposition"/ "greats and non-greats" stuff is flawed.

If Ali had dominated Frazier (and Norton) no one would think that much of Frazier, and by extension Foreman wouldn't get any credit either because all he really did was beat Frazier and Norton.
These guys built their "all-time" status on beating Ali or beating men who beat Ali.
Then Ali's record gets enhanced further by beating them (fair enough), but if he'd beat them up and ruined them first time they wouldn't even have a sniff at greatness, and you'd say he never beat any real elite all-time greats !

So what ? Conn was a brilliant boxer.

The whole point about lists is that we dont all agree. We have our own lists, and criteria.
You (and others) say "But Ali beat (or fought) three top 10 all-time heavyweights" as if it's fact rather than opinion.

BTW, I would definitely have Holmes in my top 10. Not sure that enhances Ali's record though.

 

I think all of you guys have missed the point. The guy started this thread to get publicity (read tremendous response). Obviously, he couldn't think up a worthwhile topic. So what better way other than to make outrageous comments about the most famous name in boxing.

He has obviously succeeded. Wouldn't you agree that he has indeed received tremendous response to a topic/comments which doesn't merit any response at all?

 

I have a feeling your number 1 is Rocky Marciano atsch

Just because a fighter struggles in certain fights, it does not mean he cannot then go on and qualify as the GOAT...

he lost to Frazier...Frazier is a BEAST...defo one of the ATG's....

You say norton was a nobody, but he was an underrated, good technical, awkward boxer, that gave ali stylistic difficulties.....

the henry cooper debacle was swiftly resolved via a rematch, and using this as an argument to say ali wasnt great, is like saying tyson isnt great because he struggled against James Smith/Tony Tucker's of the world in the 80's.

your argument is totally flawed...and utter BS my friend....

i can give you more reasons why ali is the GOAT than the garbage you've put up there..

he came fresh out of exile to fight the formidable Joe Frazier at the height of his powers in his FIRST fight back, in what turned out to be a classic.

i dont even have to say anything about the rumble or the thrilla:hat

....and one only has to watch his performances against ron lyle, earnie shavers, by which time the early signs of parkinsons were very much prevalent in Ali, and how he showed the heart of a lion in staying in there with killers and taking THEM out in turn....

for someone to say that Ali wasnt the best ever, i can almost agree with.

but for someone to say he isnt even in the top 10 ATG..... atsch BULL****

 

It was a diabolical opening post, thet no one here seems to support in the slightest, but there are enough good postors on this board to spin off a decent a reasonable debate from it.