Bob Foster vs Michael Spinks LHW

Well, Tangstad did stand up to Douglas, Bugner, Evangelista, Lakusta (who clobbered Foreman a good one) and Rodriguez (who did far better against a juiced Hazelton than Foster himself managed to do). Those first four mentioned had very respectable power, and Michael succeeded where they failed. I'm not saying Michael had great heavyweight power, but it was surprisingly potent at the world class level, and Tangstad was otherwise only taken out by the giant Anders Eklund. There's nothing in Bob's heavyweight resume to suggest he could have dropped or stopped a heavyweight of Tangstad's caliber as Michael did. (I do think Tangstad's a cut well above any heavyweight on Conteh's dossier.) Of course very few expected Tangstad to win (if any), but the manner of his defeat did surprise many observers.

He looked like he was throwing pebbles at a tank when Frazier steamrolled him, and Ali was mocking his power repeatedly. Doug Jones was tough as nails, but is there any way he defeats Michael, let alone stop him? No, I am not convinced Terrell beats Michael, but I am completely certain that Ernie does not stop him. At no time in his career did anybody make Michael look breakable until the Tyson massacre (where the butterflies and his alert opponent never gave him a chance to properly warm up and really unload), not even Qawi, and Spinks held his own with Holmes in the clinches.

I don't know how much of a neophyte either could have been described as after turning professional. Michael's skills took him to a Gold Medal, while Bob was a coach in the Air Force who taught Jones all too well. Seven fights in, Michael beat Tom Bethea on the undercard of his big brother's coronation. At that stage, everybody he faced had a winning record except his debut opponent (a stark contrast to the records of Foster's first eight opponents). Bob outscored Whitehurst his ninth time out (in Bert's penultimate bout), then promptly got spanked by former student Jones. Three fights later, he got dropped and outpointed by LHW veteran Mauro Mina. (No disgrace there. Mina may be one of the five or ten best to never get a title shot, certainly at 175.) Mina was his 13th fight, while Yaqui Lopez was Michael's 14th, after beating Ranquello (coming off the massive upset of Rossman) and then future 168 pound champion Sutherland in their first match. By the time Foster lost to Terrell, he was already 26 years old. Michael tended to win his tough learning bouts, even as a last minute substitute. (Ranquello was supposed to be rematching Rossman.)

No, I agree that there was nothing exceptional about Michael's power at heavyweight, but it certainly didn't disappear entirely when he stepped up. (He also stood up to the respectable power of Holmes through 30 rounds. Does Bob Foster remain upright through 30 rounds against the Holmes of Spinks I & II without getting punched out?)

Ernie Terrell really pummeled Foster's body through the first several rounds, and Marvin Johnson found out what Michael could do with one right hand to the gut. (For his part, Spinks wasn't bothered much by Mustafa Muhammad's vaunted body attack.)

If any knockdowns or knockout occurs, what evidence there is favors Spinks, not Foster, who did get dropped by Mina, the smallish Jones and DePaula.

And that hearkens back to my original conclusion that Bob's right foot being in the bucket leads to him being outmaneuvered for the decision. Holmes said Michael hit him with punches from angles which Larry had never seen before or since. Yes, Bob indeed got himself over matched against some rugged competition, but as Holmes suggested, Foster would be faced with one of the weirdest and most awkwardly effective ATG stylists to ever wear a belt.

More and more, I'm thinking this is not a good match for Foster. Michael got very physical with Johnny Davis (especially with the elbows), and was much stronger than his physique suggested. (Please remember that Shilstone became Michael's conditioning coach in 1982, which means Spinks was applying his principles throughout his tenure as the undisputed champion at 175. This on top of having Eddie Futch as his strategist.)

Something else to consider is how they will perform when dealing with opponents of comparable stature to themselves. Michael successfully dealt with the 6'4" Vonzell Johnson as well as Holmes and Cooney. Not only could he deal with taller opponents with a greater reach, he beat two of the best at utilizing that advantage. In his earlier challenge of Saad Muhammad, Vonzell started from the gate out boxing Matt handily from long range, and I had him well ahead of Matthew when he ran out of gas (in sharp contrast to the reported official scoring). Celestine stole a hometown decision from Vonzell, but Michael was legitimately leading on all cards when he struck out with the Jinx as Vonzell backed away from a break with his hands down. (Taking a step back does not entail dropping the guard, and Vonzell accepted full blame for the transgression. "Protect yourself at ALL times!")

Bob Foster had an excellent sharp jab, but Michael successfully competed for 30 rounds against an opponent with an even better one, and Mustafa Muhammad was no slouch in the jabbing department either. Is it reasonable to assume Bob could jab his way to a win against this particular adversary?

 

Immediately after getting stopped by Terrell, he snarled at Ernie, "You ain't done nuthin!" The man definitely believes in himself, even if it does result in some of the most delightfully delusional quotes from any retired great. ("Ali couldn't bust a grape!" Well, gee Bob, why did you go down so many times? "He got lucky!" "He caught me off balance!" "My water was spiked!" "I was drinking in the bar before the match!" "I had the flu." "I banged a hooker that morning!")

 

Jeez, didn't know Bob was that bad hahahaha

 

One of these doesn't fit in.

 

Foster...

 

Yeah JT, I'm surprised this is leaning so heavily toward Spinks. I have to admit there are some tremendous arguments for Spinks but I personally haven't stated an opinion because I don't have a clue. I think this could be spun in Spinks or Foster's direction. I'm not convinced that Spinks greater accomplishments at Heavyweight means much in this 175lb match. I guess I lean slightly toward Spinks, but admittedly, I grew up on Spinks and have seen more of him. This is no easy fight and no slam dunk pick IMO.

 

I just taped "Foster-Quarry" from '72 off ESPN Classics earlier today.

Good and clean copy in color..........

MR.BILL:rasta:bbb

 

I always thought Ali "mocking" Foster's power was a bluff. It's usually the case. Ali did the exaggerated rubbery legs stuff when all of us could see Frazier almost had him out in 1971, and he mocked Foreman and other big punchers, beckoning them in and pretending he was enjoying it.

 

Was it a bluff? This is like claiming a cat is trying to survive against a mouse. The live ringside announcer from "three feet away" says Ali is absolutely just pretending (to entertain the audience during a dreadful mismatch). Check out 2:20-2:40, then observe how Muhammad decks Bob yet again, five seconds after finishing his wobbly knees act. Does it really look as if Ali is desperately trying to buy time between the multiple knockdowns he alone is scoring? (Watch his legs at impact. We don't see any instantaneous dipping of the knees like we did with Shavers and Foreman. All of it is exclusively delayed in a clearly premeditated fashion.) No, Muhammad predicted an eighth round knockout, and blatantly carried Bob for the sake of making that prediction stick.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh6_koD6tZc[/ame]

 

Well, again, there are some who project that Bob would somehow stop Michael at 175 when there is absolutely no evidence that anybody other than an all time puncher who routinely knocked out top heavyweights could have even troubled Spinks at LHW. On the other hand, Michael's punch did not suddenly seem to disappear when he stepped up in weight. What clues there are point to Spinks, not Foster, as having both the better chin and harder punch? There is no disputing who had the better mobility and versatility. In what ways is Bob superior?

 

Well, Foster was a fish outta water when he fought mother's 200 pounds and over...... Foster himself had a very high metabolism and claimed in an interview yrs ago that he had trouble bulking up to a mere 185 pounds.... Foster really was a solid dude at 175 to 180 pounds, but as champ, he had to slim down to 175.... Foster was a big mo-fo at 175 if there ever was one..... Yet, Ol' Foster's Lager was a total gimp as a heavyweight....... Cheers....

MR.BILL

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying especially concerning the mobility. I would also agree that Spinks had the superior chin. I don't know about power. I'd lean SLIGHTLY toward Foster or maybe call it a wash. I prefer Foster's jab to Spinks (though not by a lot). Foster was a devastating puncher. Catching Spinks cleanly was the problem. I think both fighters were capable of knocking the other out if they could catch them cleanly.
To summarize, I do lean toward Spinks, I just don't think it's clear cut and I don't think what either did at Heavyweight necessarily determines what would happen at light heavy.

 

I think its fair to say that Spinks had better right hand (Jinx) power, while Foster had a harder left hook shot to the chops......

You guys ever see or recall Spinks at 175 icing "Vonzell Johnson, Mustapha Wassaja and Dave Sears" on TV prior to 1985? Spinks displayed wicked "Jinx" 175 pound power there....

MR.BILL

 

Spinks got Marvin Johnson out of there with a hook/uppercut very similar to the one Foster KO'd Tiger with. I think Wassaja was initially hurt with a left hook also. I saw Sears and Johnson but don't recall their undoing. I think determining who is more powerful between Spinks and Foster is splitting hairs a bit. They both have ample power.

 

Bob certainly had a sharp, hard jab which compares favorably with Arguello's. Michael's though was delivered from a mobile platform where Bob needed to be well set to strike out well with it.

With respect to LHW power, Henry Hank went 12 with Bob in a rematch (after getting stopped in nine the first time), Ray Anderson went the championship distance, Fourie also took him the championship distance in back to back challenges, and Ahumada drew with him in a situation which even Foster concedes he probably should have been dethroned.

Only Qawi and a very ill prepared Mustafa Muhammad lasted the championship distance with Michael at LHW (and Mustafa Muhammad had to get off the deck to survive). Otherwise, only Eddie Davis (in the performance of a lifetime) managed to last beyond ten rounds once Michael reached his stride, and he may have been fortunate that the WBC's new, gay, *****, pussified 12 round limit gayfight) was in place (inaugurated at LHW for this very match), very possibly protecting him from also getting stopped. (WBC thus became a Spanish acronym meaning

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