When Robinson challenged for Joey Maxim's light heavy crown in '52,he was well ahead on points until the freakishly hot conditions and Maaxim caught up with him. Even the referee,Ruby Goldstein,had to be replaced,and Maxim was n't feeling that well himself after the bout. Nevertheless,Ray proved that he could hack it at this weight,and if he'd not gone into a brief retirement,he would have been favourite to beat Joey in a return. Take this version of Robinson and put him in with the 1980 Saad Muhammad. Who takes it ?
Ray Robinson was the greatest fighter P4P I ever saw...For a welterweight,and tremendous as an older 160 pounder...But,the Robinson who fought the Light Punching Joey Maxim,who did not hit as hard as some middleweights, would have lost to a prime 175 ,hard punching Saad. Robinson ,never challenged Archie moore, Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson, Lloyd Marshall, because they were strong punching lt heavies and would be too dangerous for Ray, so he picked Joey Maxim, a top boxer but a light puncher...Saad by decision or late stoppage IMO...
Weighing it all up,I'm inclined to agree with you,Burt. Saad would be too powerful,though Ray would win a good share of the early and middle rounds.
SRR would have completed the job that John Conteh failed to complete against Saad. Jabbing, moving, outboxing, even outpunching at times, but ultimately outgutting Saad to win a close 15 round decision.
I like Saad in this one. I understand that it was hot for SRR vs Maxim, but Maxim didn't do a hell of a lot in that fight. He kept pressure on Ray but didn't let his hands go a lot. Saad would definitely let his hands go and he was much more powerful than Maxim. The bottom line is that for all his brilliance, Ray wasn't big enough to defeat a light heavyweight of the calibre of Saad. In retrospect, Maxim was sort of an ideal opponent as Burt suggested. Saad would just bring too much firepower.
Good action fight Saad had alot of heart and I think he would be too much for Robinson. Saad was a slugger who colud box at times but loved to duke it out. I pick Saad. TBH I didn't see the Robinson/Maxim fight but did view highlights of if many times.
You didn't miss much IMO. It was a lot of the same round after round. Maxim applying pressure kind of passive-aggressively (not throwing much) and Robinson boxing nicely but obviously undersized. I actually think Robinson came in at 158 (not positive on that). Yeah, the heat got to Robinson, (but it was hot for the bigger man too) but I think the pressure of a larger man got to Robinson too and Saad would bring much more effective pressure than Maxim.
I'm a big fan of Robinson so I'll check Maxim/Robinson out before this year ends. I'm also a fan of Saad and hope to see more of his fights.
There's a high quality version of SRR vs Maxim on youtube. It's worth watching once, but not one of my favorite SRR efforts for obvious reasons............Saad was faded by the time Braxton got to him. Try to check out some late 70's Saad action (if you haven't already). He was a trememndous offensive fighter. Saad - Kates, Saad Mwalle, Saad - Johnson, Saad - Lopez I & II, great stuff.
Here's a prime Saad. I think it's too steep a climb for SRR giving up all that weight: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQOL2Z-4QC4[/ame]
You don't "outgut" Saad. Robinson was nowhere near the LHW fighter that Conteh was, anyway. Far too small, and I doubt he'd even fare well trading jabs with Saad, who had one of the most underrated in the history of the division.
Saad was a warrior, flat out, and liked mentioned before, Robinson choose the right opponent to fight for the title.Matthew would definitley have a shot of stopping Ray late, but he would probably win a somewhat wide decision from 10-5 on.
Vonzell Johnson tried to dance his way to Matt's title, with Gil Clancy all the while resignedly expressing that Vonzell would not be able to keep it up. He was right, and the 6'4" 28 year old challenger couldn't even get to the championship rounds. Ray did not enjoy the height and reach advantages possessed by the cutie Vonzell. SRR is as tall as Matt, but with a shorter reach. He wouldn't have the necessary power to hurt Saad Muhammad beyond waking him up to Ray's own severe detriment. Robby was great enough to last the distance, but he'd take a frightful beating after stealing some early running successes. This isn't Harry Greb here.