Barrera vs Zarate who was greater?

Who was insinuating Orlando was a defensive master? I think Orlando was a more dynamic composite puncher than Zarate, who seemed relatively straight forward and lackadaisical whilst throwing his shots. I don't consider him to be all that sharp or snappy of a puncher, but somehow when he lands the opponents are usually either doing a dance or on the seat of their pants. In other words, I think Orlando poses more problems offensively. Brings more angles, has more variety to that aspect of his game.

 

Unfortunatly not.

Can you email me your adress on Facebook because I have finally got my arse in gear to send your DVDs.

So 4 fights, how can you have any authority or even be in a position to discuss Zarate if you have only seen 4 fights?

What a ****ing joke, 4 fights! You obviously have seen nothing of Zarate and cant hold any opinion of him.

I think beating Zamora is as good as beating Hamed.

They are providing counter-arguments though. You are making statements and they are saying where they disagree, that is never going to be completly balanced is it?

You havent overly gone into detail into Zarate's strengths and weaknesses but surprise surprise you have only mentioned Zarate's weaknesses and Barrera's strengths.

I do pay taxes now. Although right now I'm exempt from income tax as I wont earn over the personal allowance cap this year.

And boxer shorts are the best IMO

 

Believe it when I see it you lazy ****.

Pedantic ****. In actuality, it's probably more than four fights but nowhere in this thread did I claim you can't hold a reasonable enough opinion on a fighter having only seen limited amount of footage. When I referenced how many Marco Antonio Barrera fights you had seen, it was in the same vein as all of our other constant back and fourth. I wasn't addressing any of your points because I wasn't in the mood yesterday. It was relatively late, but now it's the morning after, I've made my notes from Boxrec, and I'm revitalized.

I'm not surprised.

Counter-arguments? I have addressed both El Bujia and Lora respectively, and only really Lora has found the courage to muster up a favorable sentence in regards to Marco Antonio Barrera's abilities. I've acknowledged that Carlos Zarate had one-punch knockout power in either hand, and that I'm a fan of the way he delivered his shots. Just that I think he's a one-paced, and slow comparatively to a Marco Antonio Barrera.

I'm not an authority on Carlos Zarate, I look at the footage and try to contextualize why I think he falls short in this match-up in the simplest and best way I can. Would you like me to talk about small little make believe intracies in his work? You're the expert, you tell me about it.

They are, indeed.

 

Send me your adress then.

You have mentioned it before. To be honest I'm joking here. I do think 4-5 fights is enough to get a reasonable enough feel to the fighter.

Why is it not as good?

Zamora was every bit as destructive as Naz and seen to be an unstoppable force. Zarate dominated the fight and kocked him out in a very brutal and one-sided match IMO. I also think Zamora is better than Naz, who I do not rate very highly at all.

I disagree that Zarate was one-paced. He often started slow and turned up the pace as fights went on. Although he did lack that instant explosive turn of pace that Barrera was quite good at.

About what?

 

I've only seen one fight of Alfonso Zamora, the one we keep talking about, and he didn't overly impress me. It was a shootout, both fighters landing on one another, and it was just the harder hitter with the better punch resistance that came on top. I tend to think he knocked out quite a few stiffs before meeting his match in Carlos Zarate.

He also lacked the handspeed, and ability to put his punches together as fast and with the precision of a Marco Antonio Barrera. At least that is what I see in the footage presented too me. The man seems to come across better in letters than he does on actual film.

Tell me why Carlos Zarate has the beating of Marco Antonio Barrera?

 

Zamora was a really good champion, he was knocking out everyone. OK, he di dbeat alot of lesser guys but he was impressive in doing so and he has some quality wins on his resume like Sandoval, Uchiyama etc...

He was a wrecking ball. And Zarate battered him.

I think he put punches together very very well. He would use early punches in the combo to make the later ones effective by getting leverage and positioning. Is the Amores KO with the uppercut that demonstartes this well.

This is an old post of mine on Zarate

Hes a big tall, rnagy stand up boxer-puncher. Hard puncher definitly dangerous with either hand (especially the left) and to head and body. I like the way he keeps the pressure on subtly by being in front of his opponent by doing something either moving or feinting, he fights the whole 3 minutes. He also has a very educated left hand he is able to jab and hook and even uppercut with it whilst leading and can almost do anything off his jab, involving the left hand. The left hook to the body is beautiful, I love the way he whips it in and steps forward as he does it, really powerful shot.

His combinations are really enhanced by that left hand and they are the glue thats keeps the combination together. I think Zarate is a very good combo puncher actually, as every punch is hard and thrown properly.

However, he is not the best judge and controller of distance, he is too often fighting at the wrong rnage, especially inside where he would do better if he got abit more room and leverage on his shots. Although saying that he mixes up his combos really well, he throws in hooks,uppercuts with either hand and mixes it to head and body.

Again, I like his combinations. Inside he throws them shorter although I like it when he does get some room.

He is dangerous with every punch to any area IMO, a real banger. He also takes a great shot and has good stamina ('fighting' 3 minute sin the round demonstartes this and highlights it aswell as tiring oppoennts). One thing I dont like is he can be vulnerable straight down the middle to the jab which isnt a god sign from such a good fighter.

He can be vulnerable down the middle, that is a flaw but it also is one that Barrera shares as well.

I do not know enough on Barrera to break it down but Barrera beats him as he is bigger.

 

And better in my judgment but I did read your description of Carlos Zarate and I think you make valid points. I'd be interested in seeing you take that much interest in footage of Marco Antonio Barrera, and then explain in better detail what you like and don't like about him.

I'm not entirely convinced of my pick, Zarate is a fighter I don't have great knowledge of, but going by footage alone...I think Barrera is too mobile.

 

From what I have seen I do not think Barrera is better. You have arguably one of the most efficient Bantamweight's ever in Zarate who was a composed boxer-puncher who could end a fight at any time.

One day I'll probably watch some Barrera and come to a conclusion but right now he dosent interest me.

I also think you are selling Zarate short he wasnt immobile like gun-turret he was fairly mobile and fluid and could adjust to angles well IMO.

 

But who was slow of hand and foot and one-paced.

It's in your interest.

He doesn't come across as a very fluid, he shots look kind of forced actually. I think he'd look even slower and casual than ever before when he's in the ring with a dynamic offensive machine like Marco Antonio Barrera.

 

I dont think he is as slow as you are making out though. He aint like a snail just average speed.

Your the reason I dont have an interest in him.

Really?

I always thought he was like a fluid Arguello. 've never really seen him look casual he always looks quite deliberate in his actions and strategies and keeps very good technique. His punching form is superb.

 

Nonsensical. I barely talk about the ****ing guy and when I do it's quite measured. Utter tosh.

 

Its a side-road so I wont get into it. But you are too fanatical about him IMO, its like a Jehovah's witness coming to your door and they start speaking and you know they are just religious loonies so you dont listen.

 

I like Barrera. I don't make threads about him...really ever...there are infinitely bigger fan boys on there forums...and more specifically, the Classic.

 

I assumed that by 'angles' you were referring to defensive abilities rather than offensive abilities.

I agree Canizales has more offensive angles than Zarate - but so did Alberto Davila.

Simply put, Canizales gets hit way too much to stand in Zarate's zone and win the fight. He may connect more punches and a greater variety of shots, but he isn't going to land more effective punches than Zarate, who had great power.

 

Alberto Davila was no Orlando Canizales and certainly wasn't no Marco Antonio Barrera.