Where does Harry Greb rank on an all time heavyweight list?

Gene NEVER had Harry's "number". Not ever. Their fights were all torrid affairs(with the exception of the last, which still wasn't one sided as Klompton has pointed out).

 

The first three fights were for the American heavyweight title and were all decision fights.

 

yeah there wasnt even phones back then so i dunno why your trying to show off for Gene, lying to make him friends or something bro

 

The newspaper report I posted says that Greb struggled with Tunney and Greb resorted to holding with little in the way of the swarming attack Harry is famous for.

This isn't much different to the report Klompton posted. Anything I have ever read says Greb beat the hell out of Tunney in the last 5 rounds of their first fight and Tunney was the clear winner in their final fight. The middle 3 fights were very close. It does seem that Tunney had enough to beat the version of Greb that he faced most times. Tunney had all the advantages and Greb was getting on.

My point on this thread however has always been that by the time Tunney focused on the HW title Greb wouldn't have beaten Tunney at HW. That's my opinion and it is based on what I have read about how Tunney improved and how Greb was fading. I also said Greb wouldn't make a HW Top 20 ATG list and would be pushed to make a Top30. I hardly think what I said was an outrageous statement.

I will say that I think some of the comments on this thread have lacked objectivity to some extent and I think if the views were a bit more balanced the knowledgaeable opinions expressed would have carried more weight.

 

How do you know it was a robbery if you haven't seen it ?

Muldoon is just one man, and who knows what his motives were.

It was possibly (pobably) a very close fight, the decision of which was bound to be debated.
I dont think we should call it a robbery or assume we would have Greb winning though. We haven't seen it.

 

Fair enough. I rescind. Let me rephrase. It was a CONTROVERSIAL decision, one that was challenged and decried by many people at the time.

The thing I'm really trying to debunk is the popularly held myth that Tunney "had Greb's number" and pretty much dominated their series after their first fight. This is patently false. Many on this site get that. That's obvious(and refreshing for a change). But I am still hearing echos of this myth in a couple posts here.

 

True.
I agree with that. I just think there's too much coverting of controversial decisions into "wins" generally on this board, in fights we haven't seen.
Also, I think there's a little too much credence given to newspaper reports and decisions concerning NO DECISION fights.

Although I agree with your generally point, I do think Tunney was at his best in the final stages of his career, and the bigger he got the better he was. So, I think there's a good deal of merit in what Strongback is saying too.

 

I think I have a very realistic view of british boxing for the time. Especially considering I seem to have studied it more than you and seem to have seen these guys in action more than you. Morrade Hakkar went rounds with Bernard Hopkins, does that mean he was worthy? Hell no. You still fail to impress upon me how losing a fight to someone makes you somehow worthy elevating another opponent that you lose to to world class status.

 

Harry Greb's losses seem to be more heroic than his wins in this thread.

Sorry I couldn't resist. :angel

 

Generally I'm starting to believe Greb gets a bit over-rated.

But he's probably being under-rated when people are asking themselves whether he belongs in the top 100 or top 200 of heavyweights.

 

Maybe thats because when taken into context some of his losses are more heroic than some of his wins.

 

Greb was fearless, not stupid, and there was a line even he didn't cross. We don't see Fulton, Wills, Willard, Tate, Godfrey and Firpo on his resume, all of whom Dempsey either fought, sparred with, or signed to fight. Harry didn't draw the color line, but there did seem to be a height, weight and power combination limit for a man who never truly outgrew 160, and may have always remained mindful of that early weight related knockout loss to Joe Chip. (By contrast, Langford, who Greb never took on either, was a full fledged 200 pounder well before WW I got underway.) Even if Harry expected that Dempsey would have nearly killed him in real competition though, Jack was the champion and big money, so of course it made good business sense to go after him. Otherwise, Greb appeared to understand his limits, including what might happen to him against a super heavyweight power puncher.

Ketchel battled the heavier Langford to a standstill, and decked Lil' Artha' before paying the price, possibly accounting in part for Fleischer ranking Stan over Harry in the middleweight class.