Lennox Lewis would always have brutalized Tyson.

I agree that the poll is nonsense. that is why I did not vote on it.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBFOnj-ObSQ[/ame]

 

you seem like a very devouted lewis fan. iron chin.:rofl

 

I stopped reading when you said Tyson was in great shape for lewis. Tyson even admitted he barely trained. You can see he is a soft 234lb...not the ripped 217lb in his hey dey.

 

If Tyson would have fought Lewis in 1996, he might have knocked him out. Story goes that Tyson fought Evander because he assumed Holyfield would be the easier fight.

Prime versus prime? I think Lewis could handle Mike well, but Tyson would catch him square on the chin. If he wouldn't knock him out with a single blow, then one of his combinations definitely would have done it.

 

And Tyson gave Lewis problems as well. I also heard Ruddock lit-up Lewis in sparring when they were younger.

And Tyson lost to Tillman twice in the amateurs. How did that work out as Pro?

Now as Pros, Do you know Trevor Berbick was tagging up Tyson in training/sparring easily for the preparation of Buster Douglas?
That's how bad Tyson was at that point and that's who you want to put up against Lewis in a fantasy match, prime vs. prime?

Did you know Tyson stopped using the training tactics/drills that D'Amato had him doing since the start?
And do you know he was different mentally towards boxing by then.
Also, he had no trainer who knew that style, knew how to prepare him, and to help him come up with a game-plan at that point unless you think going in there hoping to get a one-shot KO is a plan on the elite level.



Lewis had a pawing jab that was OK against slower fighters but it doesn't necessarily mean it would be against Tyson (who was taught how to deal with the jab). Tyson had trouble pre-Pro with the Jab. This is true. But that's why he continued to train for it and developed his own skills for it. There was a reason why they brought in certain Pros to help train a young/amateur Tyson up; it's called development.
Even watching the sparring footage of a 17 year old Tyson vs. Williams vs. their Pro fight can tell us a little about that.
Other than that, watch the rest of his fights. Even against Biggs.
I talked a little about this before. It's his uppercut that would really get Tyson's attention.

Now without that same training/preparation and life-style that he was leading, yes, of course he is going to be in deep waters.


Tyson vs. Lewis, Prime vs. Prime, it would have been a good fight.

Funny thread though.

 

atsch You fail hard man.

 

you make a good point caelum. I did not know about the problems he had in sparing and then destroying those same guys in the pros.

but, I never belived in excuses. in joe louis's first fight with max Shmeling he was ko'ed in the 12th. I heard joe was golfing not training and screwing around with women. the rematch he destroyed Shmeling in the first as you know. but that doesnt mean that the first fight never happened or it couldn't have happened again if Shmeling survived the first round in the second fight. could louis dealt with that right hand? I bet he would have still have landed it some, even if louis did still ended up winning.

remember the fight with buster douglas was not even close, tyson won one round I think the 8th with a right uppercut that dropped douglas but in the next round tyson was getting the worst beatdown he ever had up till that point in his career. in the next round he got his ass koed remember that.

all the excuses in the world does not erase a loss. even if tyson wasnt training it still exposes a weakness, a weakness that tyson has always had.

a good jab and hard right does him dirty and he eventually breaks down. someone with a jab like lewis and a powerful right combined with hieght reach advantage and a pretty good chin tyson loses. that's what it is.:deal

 

aaah bull****. Tyson in his prime was near impossible to hit with the jab. His whole style was based on slipping punches and countering. Watch him at his peak, guys couldn't touch him with the jab or straight punches. He was incredibly quick and elusive.

He became a straight forward bomber sometime after 1988. Lewis fought a completely shot to **** Tyson. It doesn't mean anything. He was probably 14 years past his best at that point.

 

you are exactly right here. Peak Tyson had the whole slip game down that he practicaly needed a jab coming at him to land his own shots. It was like he wanted a jab. hed slide through it and beat a guy with a longer reach at long range. remarcable radar. However, along came douglas with his feints and double jab, the counter combinations when Tyson bought the feint. It was like max schmeling against Louis.

exactly. I dont think Lewis EVER had the full 3minute rounds in him to do what douglas did to peak Tyson. IMO

 

hey buster douglas hit him with the jab, right hand, and the kitchen sink. tyson was good at slipping punches when thrown one at a time but if you stay consistant throw with conviction follow it up with a hard right he can be hit ( you will also miss some) moreover he will duck and dodge and wont be set up to counter.

mike tysons slide to side head movement was successful but lets not say that he was a great defensive fighter. pop him with the jab and right hand,
tie up when mike gets on the inside or land a quick uppercut then tie up(mike didnt seem that hard to tie up)

I remember seeing frustration on his face in the first frank bruno fight. damn that fight was dirty! bruno hit mike with a few jabs, uppercuts(mostly while holding the back of mike's head) and some right hands. he slowed down considerably after the 2nd round.

Obviously it wasn't so easy considering he was 37-0-0 by the time of douglas fight, but douglas made the blueprint to beat mike and I think lewis could be successful carrying it out. its unfair to dismiss that victory for douglas, he won that fight through hard work and determination no one won it for him.

Im not saying it would be easy, im not saying lewis would not stuggle (all the top fighters would). but I see lewis winning this matchup even at mike tysons best. out of all the hw in history I dont think a lot of them could pull off a victory here, but lewis is one of those few fighters that could.

dont think I missed this. if this is to suggest that tyson was only "prime" from 1986-1988 im gonna ****. if this is your opinion then you must strike tyson from the atg lists because to be prime at the age of 20 and then be out of prime at 23 without injury or traumatic event (like heroin addiction) is ****in ludicrisatsch

 

No, it doesn't erase the loss. It happened. We know that. That version of the fighter lost. But you can look at reasons as to why it happened. I do think there are differences between "excuses" and "reasons."

The loss was on Tyson. Tyson himself took the blame. But he would also have to look at "reasons" as to why he lost and he knew them. Same with Louis. That's why Tyson asked for the rematch and Louis did as well. Of course, only Louis got the rematch. And I'm not quite sure how Tyson would have done in the rematch given who was training him at the time. He still needed to work that Jab again, use his combinations, get his legs back in order, get his timing down, have a game-plan, etc.

Tyson has shown in the past that he can get passed the Jab, even against 6'5 guys. He would have never made it that far if he couldn't. He really wasn't susceptible to the right hand. It was more of the uppercut than anything.

Tyson took out big men. Go watch Tyrell Biggs as an example. Carl Williams also had a good jab and got blasted out of there. Others have as well.

Lewis had a tendency to paw with his jab. You can't paw with your jab against a properly trained Tyson.

 

At his best would be from Berbick to Spinks. I do think that is true.

there is a simple question on this:

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The reign, despite his age when it started to fall, wasn't so bad considering some other fighters listed as "Greats" who if you look at length of their reign and title defenses, kind of compare.

Tyson was only good at slipping one punch at a time? Have you ever bothered to watch his fights?

Defensive fighter:
Head-movement, making someone miss, was defense. It's also why you have to continually train for it. If you aren't getting hit that is what counts; that is defense...especially when you are in so close and making someone miss. Sticking your hands up and blocking shots is a lesser defense to me because if you didn't have those thick padded gloves, what would you do?


Douglas vs Tyson: He won that fight. But you can question if that was the same Tyson that beat for example, Tyrell Biggs.

Fighters have to be prepared to fight. And if you can get a fighter when he is not, well, we all saw what happened to Douglas vs. Holyfield.

 

Impossible to hit? Go ahead and watch Quick Tillis vs Mike if you're under the impression that Mike is IMPOSSIBLE to hit.

What people forget to mention in these bashing threads is that Mike Tyson not only outboxed Tony Tucker, but he outjabbed him! Tysons jab was very good, not at Lennox level but still enough to set Lennox up for a finish.

 

Tyson was an aggressive counter puncher. He needed those openings. When those openings weren't there and he had to work for them, that's when you see him more frustrated.

Not positive, but going off of interviews with how Tyson responds, before he even got to Douglas, his fight with Bone-Crusher Smith seems to be the most upsetting fight he had. He seemed pissed off with how Smith fought...or lack thereof. No openings = no target to hit unless you work hard for it.


Going back to being only able to make an opponent miss with single shots:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpEyuXlzueY[/ame]

Reggie Gross was no great fighter but it showed us a few things with Tyson: He could make you miss with more than one punch thrown at him. He could be patient when attacked. When you attack him like that, you better be prepared for him to respond.
Tyson will continue to look for that opening, position himself to counter, and hit you when you can't hit him.

It also shows, like most of the rest of his fights, that he wants you to throw at him because it enables him to make you miss while he darts in with his own shots.

Also, how important that Jab was for Tyson to use which came with lots of practice to get his timing and accuracy down. All that is trained. Stop training it and you will lose it.