Ali fraud...

Ali being exposed as an Irish fraud is no laughing matter. I don't think I need to remind you guys but Ali is a cruiser by today's standards. How many prime 250 lbs did he beat? None. He began his career at 190 and under, when he weighed over 200 he was grossly out of shape. He's nothing but a fat cruiser. He would be lucky to be a fringe contender in the 80s.

 

Are you sure you're on the right Forum? Should you not be on the "My total knowledge of boxing you could write down on the back of a postage stamp" Forum?

 

Yeah. The likes of Ali,Louis,Foreman and Frazier would have been no match for the 250 lb plus fighters like Butterbean,eh ??

 

:good I could n't have put this better myself

 

Butterbean knocked down the best version of Larry Holmes, more than Ali did. Holmes only got better as he got older, stronger, and smarter.

 

Muhammad Ali's best fighting weights where between 215/220.

Muhammad Ali was not a Cruiser Weight you *****.

 

To be blunt I think you're in a cycle that many here already have gone through. Ali is often the reason why many get into boxing. They listen to the hype about him, how he' absolutely unique as a sportsman and as a person etc and buy into it for a while.

But as they get to know a bit more about boxing and Ali, a reaction often sets in. They see the fundamental flaws in Ali's style (the leaning back, low guard etc), they see the dubious decisions he got, they see how he got away with illegal holding tactics, how he publically humiliated Frazier etc, etc. When they've come to this point they start proclaiming him a fraud and a false icon, and think everyone else deluded.

But most on this Forum have been there and moved past that. Once you do, you recognize that most greats have had close/controversial fights go their way (Robinson and Louis being two good examples) and that they often also been flawed as human beings, but that only a handful have done what Ali did in beating all comers during nearly 2 decades.

They also start to look past the flaws in Ali's style and notice subtleties. His use of angles in movement and punching, his unexpected combinations, his near perfect balance and sense of positioning, his way of dictacting the fight, his ability to adapt to the opponent and switch styles etc, etc.

What makes Ali interesting is that he had flaws. Both as a man and as a boxer. But he still managed to achieve so much. That is because of the great qualities he also had, that are not always clearly visible.

 

Ha ha ha ha. So the left hook and right hand that george foreman ate mustnt have made contact either

 

Just like they landed in bunches on those defensive masters Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker Once Tyson's plan A of rushing in and bombarding an opponent until they fell over didn't work he was all out of ideas and that's with the "genius" of Kevin Rooney in his corner as well.

And if Ali is a fraud what does that make Tyson?

KO'd by a ****ing journeyman in his prime,manhandled and stopped by an old and supposedly shot Cruiserweight,brutalized by a Hasim Rahman victim,pummelled by a British trialhorse and sent into retirement by an outsized hack who finished starshaped against anybody with a semblance of a punch (except for Tyson).

In fact digging deeper his best wins were a rusty,fat,old Larry Holmes,a rusty,scared Michael Spinks and the oh so ordinary Frank Bruno.The rest (Tubbs,Thomas,Berbick) were all past their best which wasn't that good to begin with.

And you reckon this hype job gives Ali troubles :rofl

Dream on chump.

 

:good Of course !! Holmes was far better in his fifties than he was in his twenties and thirties. He had a reverse prime. He was totally shot when turned pro in 1973,and was slightly faded when he fought Shavers and Norton. By the time he fought Oliver McCall in '95 he was just entering his prime. Larry's career best performance though,was against Butterbean. No heavyweight in history could have beaten him that night. :twisted:

 

Bokaj,as usual you have summed up a situation very well. As you infer,Ali was human. I've been a fan of his since I was 11 years old in 1966,and as I've said so many times,he is my favourite boxer of all time. I have a balanced view,so I don't look upon him as an angel. Muhammad could be be a bad boy at times. He was an ordinary guy who happened to possess an EXTRAordinary talent,and he had his flaws,as all the great ones did. Indeed,as all of us do.

 

The Ali of 190 lbs was fast, fluid, and untouchable. At 215, he lethargically laid on the ropes, lettting slow punchers hammer his beer gut all night. Ali was an exceptional Cruiser, and a fat lazy Heavyweight. He was the Toney of the 60s.