Ezzard Charles vs Mike Tyson. "Primes"

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bonecrusher, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Tyson by early KO.

    I feel sorry for Charles in this one. Tyson would be ferocious and all over him. I think Charles technical skills, rather than Spinks awkwardness would get him out of the first round. I seriously doubt he gets out of the first five rounds, though. Likely result... 2nd or 3rd round KO by Tyson.

    One of the huge problems was Spinks was zero threat to Tyson. Charles would not sting Tyson, and would be no firepower to match him with.
     
  2. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    You aren't worth saving, are you?
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Let me guess, your one of the guys who voted for Charles on this thread, but picked Tyson in print.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Tyson would probably be the greatest all time slayer of 175's moving north. I'd take him in 1-2 rounds.
     
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  5. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    No, you do know it's a public poll.

    I'm just referring to you sticking to your guns for your own stubborn reasons.

    Like Charles liked to brawl. What would you call that... intellectual dishonest or willfully ignorant?
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I was being sarcastic. Either way, we agree its a short night's work for Tyson.

    On film, Charles was aggressive, and liked to brawl far more than he liked to play it safe and box. Do you agree with this statement?
     
  7. Caelum

    Caelum Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tillis was a legit 200+ pound HW at that time. He also used his legs to keep a distance from Tyson. Not to mention this was a 19 year old Tyson still gaining experience because he had yet to go past 6 rounds. Now, yes, in his very next fight he fought Mitch Green which also went the distance. But look at how much more confident Tyson was in that fight. A fight against a Tall Fighter who was also a legit 200+ pound HW...who also lost a wide UD against a still learning Mike Tyson.

    Charles is smaller than both Tillis and Green. Green also used tactics to survive against Tyson.
    I forget exactly what Tillis said, I'll look it up later, S.I. article, but he mentioned how Tyson's power was on par or greater than when he fought Shavers. So I'm guessing he too became more cautious.

    Charles would come to fight. Come to win.
    How many went the distance with Charles?...especially at 19 like Tyson?


    "Medicine"?

    PEDS?
    Possible.
    Rooney and Steve Lott denied any such thing with Tyson years later in interviews about when they had him but anything is possible. Especially given D'Amato's need for another Champion and like Tyson mentioned, he wasn't exactly imposing like that of Ken Norton. But that's where Tyson had to build up that mental game...that fear factor to make-up for it.
    And of course any time after he left the original team anything is possible without them knowing as well. Shady times.


    Actually, they had steroids in the 50's in the States. You could get them in Pennsylvania actually. Bodybuilders were already using them. And, even before the 50's, you could get them in Europe I hear. Although I think it was mid-50's so Ezzard was past his prime by then. Ezzard's prime however was when he was fighting at Light-Heavyweight.

    Other things: Protein Powders/Pills and Vitamin and Minerals which Tyson did use, were all around way before the 80's. They were used in the 50's actually. Bodybuilders, again, were using them and I wouldn't be surprised if athletes were using them.

    Bulking up: D'Amato had Patterson bulk up from MW to HW in a period that wasn't that long at all. Even Marciano mentioned how different Patterson looked when he faced off and KO'd Moore.
    Bulking up isn't anything new. Bodybuilding isn't anything new. They knew about ways to do it in ancient times and they certainly knew about it in the 20th century. Eugene Sandow even wrote a book about nutrition/bodybuilding.



    Tyson was a big kid when they got him which is why they took him in....along with his natural speed, power, and aggression. I put up the exact weight they talked about him being at 13+ in another post not to long ago. Quoted from two sources/books.

    Weight-lifting, Vitamins, Minerals, Protein Supplements and how to make weight-gainers from food sources, Steroids...all available in the 50's. Even "greenies" were used by athletes back then, including I hear at least one boxer I read about.

    If Tyson used them at some point, it's possible. Tyson didn't have the advantage anymore with size in this new era of Super-HWs where he would still have been a legit HW for the 60's-70's...and certainly during Charles era of Heavyweights. You had big guys, tall and heavy, that had skill, like Tony Tucker in the 80's.
    So could they have been tempting? Sure, why not. Even at a point when you lose the edge...either with a loss or just in size over the competition or even inactivity.

    Being a 5'11, 200+ pounder was a huge disadvantage in that era.


    But so is everybody from the time they came into the States in the 50's.

    Either way, Tyson Pre-Pro career was heavier than Ezzard Charles.

    Found it:

    This content is protected
    This content is protected


    Tyson KO.
     
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  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    You need to watch more film of a prime charles. He was a swift moving, highly intelligent, slick master boxer with lightning fast reflexes and handspeed. He was not a brawler.
     
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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Disagree with this statement. What 1940's film of Ezzard Charles have you watched?
     
  10. Caelum

    Caelum Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The brawling Ezzard Charles :lol: :patsch

    I can't believe he said that either.

    He was a master boxer. Arguably the greatest LH in history.
    True, he could light you up with his offense but he wasn't some brawler by no means.

    These boxers back then, like Charles, understood how to slip a punch and counter. Set you up and landed a devastating shot. Make you think twice about doing it.
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E2BEE8Ce70[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPAIFzsyqXo"][/ame]
     
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  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Mendoza has a personal vendetta against 1940-1950s greats.
     
  12. Caelum

    Caelum Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Really?

    Does he have a particular era he likes?

    If he likes today's fighters, I could start mentioning which guys get lit up from today's era if placed against fighters that fought back then...starting with Charles taking over the LH division, and even below that since he started lower than LH. Imagine what he would do to today's SMW division, a division he didn't have in his day?

    That's why I brought up Patterson as well in a thread. At least from MW to LH, I could see him defeating these current fighters. There are some good fighters today in the SMW and LH division, don't get me wrong, but to think someone like Charles and/or Patterson couldn't hang with them is ridiculous.


    SRR would tear apart the current WW division.

    Willie Pep would still be embarrassing people.
     
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  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    From what I have gathered..Vitali Klitschko and James Jeffries. Plus all of their opponents. He is also a closet Jack Dempsey fan.
     
  14. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Charles would get ****in murdered, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional about the old timers.
     
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  15. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    No, I don't agree with your statements. I remember you said this about his first fight with Marciano, I have a different take.

    Charles plan was to fight. Charles plan was to fight outside, and when Marciano got on the inside he would throw quick short hooks and combinations, and then tie up Rocky, back off and fought off the outside with the jab again... rinse and repeat. Charles belief was to FIGHT Marciano... not to brawl or fight him in his territory. He believed you couldn't win by ruining, so he wanted to fight Marciano on the outside, and bang him on his way inside and THEN tie up. He did his best to employ his skills and technique in employing this strategy.

    Now, Charles in his prime liked to box. He was a scientist, and a great ring general. Not a fighter that liked to brawl... he was lambasted for being too "boring" too passive. After Joe Louis he was seen as vanilla. Your perception is off-base I'm afraid. It won't matter in this case with Tyson. Too big, too fast, too powerful, and great defense. Charles won't brawl himself to death... he would just be overwhelmed.
     
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