Who is the last middleweight who was the best heavyweight on the planet at some point

Well, I suppose that neither Jones Jr nor Toney were ever really at any point the best heavyweight(s) on the planet despite the alphabet straps.

I'm not sure if Spinks, Patterson or Walcott were classed as middleweights at any point in their early careers.......

If you don't go Ellis in conjunction with none of the above, I suppose it would be Charles.

 

Fitzsimmons is the only true midleweight to be the best (with Gloves). More than that though, Fitzsimmons is the only true light heavyweight to be the best fighter in the world, also.

 

Sorry, I misinterpreted the general idea - not an unusual occurrence, I might add.

What year(s) would you have said that Greb had a case for being the top heavyweight? My overall knowledge of him doesn't compare to that of some folk on here, though I know he beat bigger men consistently while never really being much more than a middleweight.

 

Jimmy Ellis.

Lots of folks liked him as the best up until the 1970 Frazier bout. And Angie Dundee had a lot of folks believing he was going to box circles around Joe & get a lopsided win in that one.

 

Fitz first came to mind but now Ellis has been mentioned I think he might take it.

What was the outcome of the first fight with Frazier? Didn't he last 5-6 rounds?

 

Destroyed in 4 and Dundee did not let him come out for the 5th. And that was a terrific move on Angie's part and he's not given enough credit for it. That fight really propelled everyone's opinion of Smokin Joe and knew it was really going to take a lot to beat him.

 

Jimmy Ellis was beaten 4 times as a middleweight but was a very good Heavyweight.

In recent times Maurice Harris, not on the same level as Ellis but Maurice most felt beat Holmes and Lyakovitch and a few others

 

hard time swallowing maurice harris as best of anything, unless you believed the hbo 'this is the best guy with 121 losses in the world' stuff.

 

Fitzimmons.

 

I don't think there was any moment in time when Ellis was the top heavyweight in the world. Neither do I believe he was ever a better heavyweight than Frazier. Smoke dominated Machen in November 1966, took out Jones in February 1967, and I don't feel Ellis ever caught up, let alone surpassed Joe. (Beyond that, Jimmy was certainly never the best middleweight in the world, going only 15-5.) At the time Fitz was the top man, he was also still a future middleweight, knocking out Ruhlin at 158.

Greb? Without a showdown with Wills, or a win over a monster like Fulton, this is too much of a stretch.


Mickey Walker? He raised some hell from Hudkins II in October 1929, to Uzcudun in May 1932, a relatively weak era in the heavyweight ranks, and many believe he deserved the decision over Sharkey in their draw. Check out Jack's filmed performances immediately before and after the Toy Bulldog. A low blow disqualification was the only way Schmeling was going to attain the vacant title over him, and he recovered from the Walker scare by decking and battering the crap out of Carnera for 15 rounds. (Wouldn't Primo and Mickey have been fun to watch?) That was a hell of a fighter Walker went tooth and nail with, and as I recall from his autobiography, he took referee Arthur Donovan's card, 11-4-1. (I'll need to pull his book out of storage to reaffirm that. Shockingly, I can't immediately find the scorecard breakdown on line.)

During that two and a half year interval, Mickey was undefeated in 28 fights. Sharkey fought four times within the same period (including the Walker draw, where he claimed, "Inactivity BEAT me"), while Schmeling only had the DQ win with Sharkey and the defense against Stribling. Jack maintained that the Walker who drew with him was a tougher opponent than Schmeling, and that an aging, heavier and slower Mickey was considerably diminished when Max stopped him in eight.

Between Johnny Dundee stopping him on butt induced bleeding in June 1926, and Risko managing a 12 round UD hometown win in June 1932 (the Rubber Man's third try), only a peak Loughran had been able to sneak a ten round split decision win over him, a six year span covering some 45 fights.

Walker was already 30 when he drew with Sharkey in July 1931, and weighed a career high 174 pounds (and in lousy shape) for Schmeling over a year later. But there may well have been moments in late 1929, 1930 and 1931, after Sharkey eliminated Loughran, when an active and in shape Walker may indeed have been the top of the lot.

For Sharkey, he came in at a higher weight than expected, and might not have been in peak condition, although he was described by some as being in his best shape for years. By his own account, the only time he really whipped himself into peak condition during his heavyweight campaign was when he trimmed down to 158 for his originally scheduled date for Schmeling, before a self inflicted injury caused a postponement with deadly consequences for Mickey. But that anecdote, if true, suggests that Walker's best weight was always below 160.

 

Well, personally I was a Frazier guy and thought he was better than Ellis. Not everyone agreed with that. What I said was a lot of people at the time thought Ellis was better. A lot of folks had really not bought into Joe for some reason or other and it may have been the Bonavena fights or Ali in his exile still claiming he was the best. And you had Angie and that magic touch and flair of his stating Ellis would box circles around Frazier & lots of poeple bought into it.

But Ellis did win the title and was a formidable opponent for anyone in that 68-70 timeframe. After the Frazier bout, that Ellis stock dropped a ton and it was pretty much over for him. That was a brutal beating to overcome from a guy like frazier

 

Bob Fitzsimmons won the hvwt title when there was only one crown, not the piece of it that RJ got.