Need a forun for the fans from way back who were actually there and not just youtube

It's actually the truth.

Someone who's sat ringside or close enough and seen a fighter performing his craft, and watched him train in the gym and in camp, has a far greater grasp of that fighter than someone who's just seen some videos and read reports.
The intensity of the protests against that idea here on this thread suggest to me that deep down we all know it's the truth. People get upset about the truth.

Of course, it doesn't mean the person who "who sat ringside or close enough and seen a fighter performing his craft, and watched him train in the gym and in camp" ..... should be taken as speaking 100% gospel on the subject. His impression is just a personal impression, and as a human he will be flawed.
But it's worth more consideration - and based on much more - than the person who's never even seen the fighter.

 

I personally find this thread just ridiculous,I as a young(19) but huge classic boxing fan really enjoy reading personal experiences from some of the posters on here who seen the fights in person,but,to think your somehow better than others because your older and got to see the fights live is crazy and you believe you deserve a new forum just for you and some others??? there are many ignorant people on youtube boxing videos especially the pacquiao and mayweather fans but its not that hard to just watch the video and ignore the dumb comments.I have a question as well you talk about seeing the fights going to the camps and what not and talk like your superior,but,what about back when louis was fighting and the only way many of the black americans could get to see louis fight was by setting by a radio bunched up with other people does that make a person who seen louis fight better than the ones who could only hear him??? I enjoy this forum because everybody of all ages can talk boxing and share opinions,there is always gonna be people who make dumb comments and try to get people riled up all you have to do is ignore them.

 

I dont think anyone is "better" for having seen a fighter, but it's just a fact that having seen a fighter close up in camp and in the ring DOES lend itself to forming a clearer impression and having a better grasp of a fighter.

Just as watching a film or TV footage of a fighter IS superior to radio or reading a report.
That's why loads of guys here get excited about film of a fighter they've never seen, only read about.
Nobody gets quite as excited about a report of a fight they actually saw.
I dont see how anyone can even dispute these basic truths.

When people say they "could almost feel" the punches of a Mike Tyson from ringside, or were truly impressed by the skill or speed of a said fighter when they saw him up close, that's a particularly experience that isn't available to people who weren't that close. We cant compare that experience against another fighter we saw live UNLESS we experienced both.
And those you knew fighters in the gym and in camp, knew their moods and their form - they too had more immediate "sense-data" to form impressions and knowledge of those fighters.

It's like if someone's seen all of Beyonce's videos and someone who's seen her up close, and someone who's seen her up close and touched her !
Clearly there is a hierarchy of experience - - and who's account is more interesting and who can better claim "superior knowledge" ?
Think about it.

 

I think I've found the forums for you The Morlocks

www.thedurannutthuggingforum.com and

www.theforumwherenoonedisagreeswiththemorlocks.com

The general forum probably needs a Mayweather Pacquaio sub forum right now

 

What you are talking about, unforgiven isn't exactly the same as the threadstarter was getting at though is it.He is a man of certainty it seems, where you read like you have serious self-esteem issues here.IF you think your opinions are worthless/ignorant on fighters you have watched then so be it, but don't expect everyone else to be quite as jaded.


And you seem to be automatically assuming the age and live fight experience of everyone who is objecting to him.Whole lot of presumption going on here.

It's also certainly not a given that seeing something live is of more worth than viewing it from professional/amatuer shot footage.That is entirely down to the individual in question's interpretation and quite number of factors.Both have their place and shouldn't be put in some sort of set order of worth.

Sure someone's recount of how they saw Ayub kalule's glorious triumph against the legendary japanese masterboxer Musashi Kudo in the flesh, is going to be more interesting than a similar post about someone telling us they sat and watched it naked on youtube 30 years after the fact, and after ****ing your sister, but that's getting into another area entirely again..

Everybody likes a good first-hand sporting story, i doubt many will dispute that.The morlocks should start a good thread on his if he feels this place is needing more of that.

 

I never said my opinions were worthless, but, as I've said, there's a difference in basing opinions on reading a single report of a fight, or seeing a fighter on TV or seeing him knock someone out a few feet away from you.
My most worthy opinions take into consideration the vast and varied testimony of others who were advantaged to have had that immediate sense-data. Much of the rest is fleeting waffle, i admit.

I have no "serious self-esteem issues". Just showing some humility, and not being so arrogant as to take myself too seriously.

Not really. He pretty much laid out the type of person he was talking about in the opening post - which I admit was flawed, but the basic jist of it, and his later clarifications was fair.
A lot of people made ****-taking dismissive posts.
I'm not assuming anything about anyone, but i think many have missed the point AND several have become aggressively defensive on the issue.

I'd welcome that too. :good

 

Correct & all based on the expereance & being privy to all the info available at the time. I'am not suprised in the slightest at some of the feather ruffled squealing on here what with the bruised know-it all ego's in play

I now know why my late father fired me from the family business when i was in my early 20's, i was crushed but know i realise he should never have employed me in the 1st place To much know it all inflexible gob with a pychotic belief that i was always right:yep & what with a total lack of being able to listen or read between the obvious lines put in front of me.

His words were, i'll always listen to what you have to say & suggest but it don't make me wrong if i choose not to implement your worldly wisdom at this present moment in time. WHY NOT said I, you have the young man's curse of enthusiasum but not the expereance of life to control it so shut yer yap & open yer ears then maybe you'll learn something, **** off said i & YOUR FIRED said he

I hope i'am around in 20 years time to see the responces from the squealers on here when the next young crew of the day start lambasting Barrera/Morales/Pacman/Mayweather/Tyson & co:rofl it comes to us all:deal

 

So you're proposing introducing a complete partition of the Classic Boxing community on the grounds that people who saw something 60 years ago sitting in the nosebleeders through a cloud of *** smoke are necessarily much more richly informed than modern fans?

 

I agree with the TS about how annoying it must be when people twist up facts and make dismissive, disrespectful statements when you know how wrong thay are. When people are too ****-sure about their predictions in fantasy match-ups or only defend their "own" era - that is also bad. Most of the posters haven't seen Harry Greb and yet some speaks of him like he is god, the same thing goes for young lads talking about RJJ. Reading some of the "Nobody beats prime RJJ, he was just untouchable, he was superman" makes mythical monsters and fairytales come to mind...

The problem is, I don't see this in the classic forum much at all. Thre's hardly any need for moderation, which says something. Just like Lora says, the only things that get rehashed over and over again are threads concerning Duran, Fab Four and how Roy Jones would do against the elite fighters of the past. The Duran debates gets so heated and hardly anything new is being said, and since I understand you are a big Duran fan it must be irritating to see certain posters - and they are few - spout the same things over and over again.

Compare to the general forum; there you have ten (and I'm not kidding, TEN!) threads about the same subject and the front page. If you think there are loads of disrepectful people on the Classic, that's nothing compared to people saying "Void is Void". If you'd been talkning about that forum then I would agree in some parts - that place, while good sometimes, needs moderation!

 

While I'd say only 10-15% of the posters (rough estimation) in the General are somewhat good, the number here are far greater. I'd say 60-70 percent, and that's high.

And before my post gets too drawn-out, as they tend to, I would also like point out that live experiences can be very deceiving. From my limited recollection - I'm young - live matches often gives a very skewed picture of the fight in itself. I've seen some fights where I'd been fooled by the crowd noise and assessed the fight wrongly. If you're not ring-side, I don't think it's better at all. But there are some things you see live that you miss out on on youtube - and vice-versa. By that of course not saying that live reports aren't any good or that it's unimportant to know the context of the fight. It certainly help to have been about around the time, but it's not a must if you watch the fights and fidn out about the context.

Unforgiven, reports are hard to judge by, I agree. But if you notice, the TS was talking about people watching fights on youtube. That's a different thing, wouldn't you say? For example, if I've seen about 20 bouts of Duran on youtube - don't you think I've got a good grasp of him even if I did not see them live? And if I respectfully express my opinion about him or fantasy match-ups, what's the problem?

Just humping all the young posters together, saying they're wannabe-experts and expressing a wish to isolate yourself is elitist and just plain wrong. By doing that, the young will be even more ignorant and miss out on a lot of things and tips about fighters/fights from the older posters! That's not what you want, is it?

Start a thread. I, for one, would love to read it.

 

Yeah, a quick trip over on General makes you appreciate Classic so much more. I've think some of the things said on here are mad, and then I look over on General and see

This content is protected

.

 

Good post:good I think that The Morlocks has understandibly got more than just a little bit frustrated with some of the clowns on here so he's just venting his spleen, but it's all the more richer for having more mature & experienced people on here who can put a bit of fact juxtaposed to the fantasy.

I agree with you regarding live fights, but the TS is not using in the context you think he is & which has been seized upon by the resident blusterer's, the u-tube term is actually a generalisation which unfortunatly captures all & is'nt intended too, it's been covered by unforgiven in the sence that fans who have been there, seen it, done it & ****ed it, just have a better all round perspective of what it's really all about, rather than wathing fight after fight on vid/disc u-tube ect, **** all wrong with that obviously but thats been taken out of context as expected by the resident squealers.

It's deeper than you can imagine!!! once you get on the inside track & become part of the promotion in some tiny way, unless you've expereanced it yourself then it's impossible to explain in any clarity. much like someone telling his pal all about his trip to Vegas in the boozer & expecting him to visulise & understand what you expereanced. Can't be done, but don't knock the feller that actually went...........

As i said it's just a case of frustration i recken when you read some of the absolute crap written on here by people who could fill a book on what they DON'T know about boxing & spew out opinions based on just watching a fight on tape & never ever understanding the backdrop or build up to some contentious events that have happened & the person who was on the spot is dismissed.......hope yer get me drift here as there's plenty of fine young posters on here who give a good debate & refrain from adopting the puffed up psuedo intellectual persona thats so craved by a few on here as a crutch for their lack of real world ability & acheivment, nightime executives

 

And what about people who actually fought vs. old geezers who merely sat in the audience drinking beer? Do they deserve a separate forum as well? He'll just have to accept that people disagree with him.