Would a Motivated In Shape Buster ?

Douglas's ability and skillset gets ridiculously overrated on this board because he happened to have the style and beating of a somewhat sloppy version of prime Mike Tyson.

I take nothing away from Douglas' win, the greatest upset in history - in fact, I dont rule out the possibility that fighting at his best he might beat any version of Mike Tyson.
And that's more credit than most here will give him.

But I dont credit him with having the all-round skillset and complete package that would see him win through fights with a whole crop of other top fighters, with different styles and dimensions to what a Mike Tyson puts in front of Buster.

 

Easily and hed bust up Vitali too. Buster at his best would be even money with Wlad.

I think Vitali would beat Wlad but style wise Vitali would be a better opponent for Buster.

 

Yes because that would mean he's the only motivated, in shape contender out there.

 

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What a jab by Douglas at 7:05 in the Williams fight. The finish looks a lot like against Tyson.

 

You had me until you said "Tokyo" Buster beats any form of Tyson...No way. An untrained, unmotivated Tyson dropped him with an uppercut that he pulled out of his ass. Prime '87-'88 Tyson would continually move his head and feet, slip those Shaolin staff jabs and pummel Douglas mercilessly. Everything else I agreed with. Carry on.

 

Wlad and Vitali beat Buster easyily.
Buster would be a 50-50 against Chambers, Povetikin, Boystov And Adamek.

 

Overall, I don't like Douglas's conditioning, his heart, or his work rate. He didn't have a good work ethic over most of his career. Average out the two faces of Douglas and he won't beat many HW greats.

That being said, his performance against Tyson cannot possibly be overrated. It was masterful. And it wasn't just "his style," Unforgiven, it was the total package:

He came in there 6'4, 230 lbs, with a reach that rivalled Liston's.

He had hand speed,

he was mobile -stepping back, stepping at angles,

he was punching with variety and varying his speed,

he was countering,

he went down and got up,

he was a finisher,

look at his work-rate,

look at his connect rate.

Look at the jab!

Look at the technique! It is rare indeed when any boxing fan can feast their eyes on a HW with that level of skill. And he was a superheavy.

No, that performance ain't overrated. And it had less to do with "style" than you think. Unless you consider technical aptitude as just "something in the toolbox" --technical aptitude IS the toolbox.

 

Well Tyson had something to do with that. I can look like a master too on a punching bag. Douglas was tuned in that night, but for the most part the fight was on his terms. Holyfield quickly pushed him outside of his comfort zone, and you saw that same look on Douglas face when he decided to get up against Tyson, but this time stayed down, because the motivation wasnt there, which was more proof to me Douglas had skills, but never the heart or will to be great for a long time.

There could never be enough life events to keep Douglas as motivated as he was against Tyson.

Douglas wouldnt need that in todays division though, his ability would bring him very far. We are seeing two dominant champs who have proven to be lacking in the same areas Douglas was, only I believe Douglas has better skills than both Klitschkos.

 

Well, firstly, I think a lot of the 1980s heavyweights had the same toolbox, or something similar. That "level of skill".

I dont doubt Douglas' performance, he put on a truly championship performance, and fought in a fearless manner that Tyson had foolishly not anticipated.
But I feel the way his skillset for one that night is described is sometimes exaggerated. He boxed well, and landed good shots. He got his shots off before Tyson, and landed, and kept doing it. Tyson really failed to adapt or change the rhythm of the fight, and failed to capitalize on Buster's mistakes.

Buster moved well, but left himself too open quite a lot, as Holyfield and his trainers duly noted, especially when he threw that uppercut. He did it over and over against Tyson, but Mike just ate it and failed to capitalize.

I think guys like Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Carl Williams, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tucker, Pinklon Thomas and perhaps even Tyrell Biggs had similar ability on their best nights too - and the ones who fought Tyson either failed to be at their best on that night or were unfortunate that Tyson was at or near his best on that night. Usually a combination of the two.

Having said that, maybe they are all worthy of being labelled "among the most fundamentally sound heavyweights in recent memory" on their best nights, as you did Buster.

 

this is too easy a cop out to make to excuse tyson. Tyson was not unmotivated otherwise he would have quit. he was not untrained because he kept trying for 11 rounds and was a good weight. his preparations were always chaotic, he was a man child after all.

lots of guys had tried the dummy feints and long jabs and got punished. douglas used more purpose, angles and was more driven than those that had tried until then. tillis did it but lacked the suficient size advantage. biggs did it for one round but faded, letting tyson ito the fight. Tucker tried but hurt his hand. wiliams tried but stayed in range too long. buster had the tools, the balls and put it all together ...one time.

 

Douglas most likely wouldn't fight every fight at his peak like that though. Hypothetically, if he did, he would beat every fighter out there today. I just don't think he would stay in that great shape for every single one of his fights.

 

The heavies of the 80's had very underated skills for sure.

 

The 80's heavyweights may have been the most talented era of all time.

Douglas, Tucker, Michael Spinks, Holmes, Dokes, Witherspoon, Thomas, Biggs, Tubbs etc. were all very talented fighters. Holmes was the best of the group pretty much because he was the only one that was able to keep his head on straight.

 

Totally agree. But I cannot believe you left out Greg Page. Outside of Holmes and Tyson, I thought an early 1980's Greg Page looks by far the most talented of the era. He actually had the tools and natural talent to be an ATG. Watch him sometime on film, he could do it all.

 

Greg Page was the man.