In Defense of Jack Dempsey {article} + The great trainers and fighters on Dempsey

Thats what ESB "CLASSIC" is meant to be about if you can't appreciate what the hell are you doing on the "CLASSIC" forum - or are you just here to rubbish anyone who is into the old time classics?? I really don't understand what you're on this forum for if you don't understand that?? Are you even a fight fan??

 

Yeah, this is really it. That I'm called a Dempsey hater just because I don't agree that he would bulldoze through some of the greatest HWs ever just goes to show how out of proportion everything gets when discussing Dempsey.

I don't believe any fighter ever would would bulldoze Louis, Marciano, Tyson and Foreman. The unreal specimen that would hasn't been born yet.

 

Cheers GreatA you just succeeded in proving my point at the same time as trying to refute what I was saying :nut

 

:huh

 

Saying stuff like Dempsey would steamroll Foreman, Marciano, Louis, Tyson all in 1-2 rounds without breaking a sweat, and then having a temper tantrum when people point out that that's pretty unreasonable isn't "appreciating the classics." It's called being an idiot.

 

You're the idiot mate - I didn't ever say that at all did I ?? - so you're just succeeding in making yourself look an idiot not me - Also I'm not having a temper tantrum as you so elliquently put it - I'm simply saying that you sound a bit stupid coming on the classic forum and then moaning about why people love the old time fighters??? what don't you understand?? ps do one :good

 

I think you're missing the point here. This thread is about what the likes of Ray Arcel and others have said about Dempsey and people were commentating on that. It's no disrespect to Dempsey, just putting these quotes in perspective.

 

B, I have posted this before, but it is important to this subject...
Some Dempsey detractor said that people as Ray Arcel,rave about the prime Dempsey because he [Arcel] was 20 years young when Dempsey
was flattening Fulton, Morris, Willard etc,and this left an indelible impression on young Arcel...
Let me remind you that in 1950,in a poll taken by top writers who saw
Johnson to Joe Louis, voted by a great majority Jack Dempsey, the
greatest fighter from 1900-1950...Why, were they demented old fogey's
who were biased.? No, they were hard bitten boxing experts, who saw
IN PERSON, allthe great fighters til then, and voted Jack Dempsey
the best fighter, with Joe Louis, second in the first half of the 20th
century...As I do today...
P.S. Georges Carpentier though a LH had one of the greatest and fastest
right hands in boxing history...He flattened Beckett and Billy Wells heavies
each in one round...
P.P.S. Jack Dempseys first wife [who had no love for Dempsey] revealed that young, hungrey Dempsey took a DIVE in 1917 against Fireman Jim
Flynn in one rd...Exactly one year later Dempsey flattened Jim Flynn in
one round...
P.P.P.S. Sam Langford ,proclaimed prime Jack Dempsey as the GREATEST heavyweight he [Langford] had ever seen...High praise indeed !

 

So I am to understand that Tyson only makes it two rounds with Dempsey but that Tommy Gibbons goes 15. And that Jack Sharkey really liked white fighters, but thought Joe Louis was nothing spectacular.

Got it.

 

So I'm a Dempsey detractor now? For pointing out the obvious? I'm sure you too do not believe that Dempsey would "murder" any fighter. All I did, was say it. And yes, an exciting fighter running through opposition can leave a lasting impression on a 18 year old, even if he grows up to be a respected trainer. Thus I do not take Arcel's words as the truth.

The alleged Dempsey dive was discussed in a thread months ago and it came to the conclusion that there is no sufficient evidence of Dempsey taking a dive. Not saying he didn't, but it shouldn't be stated as absolute fact either.

 

I'm not missing the point GreatA?? The guy was calling me an idiot on the grounds that I made some statements the I didn't even make????!!!! The point of the thread was probably to put things BACK IN PERSPECTIVE I think. see Burt's notes above

ps you say you take Ray Arcel's comments with a grain of salt - you say that as though people should listen to you over one of the great minds in boxing history???!! you say he sounds like the average Tyson fan?? So you wouldn't listen to Ray Arcel or the average Tyson fan?? Is there anyone you'd listen to?? other than yourself??

About the Flynn dive also - you said something along the lines of there was no proof of it being a dive and I just assume it was?? I think the people who were ringside would disagree with you - and on the flipside I think you are just trying to assume it WASN'T a dive - thats what i think

 

It's a lovely piece ... I just wish there was more concrete fact ..

Arcel was the real deal without question ... I only ask where was the source of the Arcel statements ? I never read them anywhere but in this article ... Accordingly to this article Arcl goes over the top picking Dempsey over Louis and I never read that anywhere .. if Arcel, who knew both fighters so well and was so respected a trainer really said this it does have merit ..

Other than that I have always agreed there was sme sort of inner demon, Manny Paq thing in Dempsey and how he fought .. his speed, power, inner fury and flat out killer instinct ... he was so brutal inside the ring .. his natural talent so huge ...I just always have and am forced to give him an incomplete because unlike Paq we only se it in slivers in Dempsey due to inactivity and opponent selection ...

 

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so there's equal amounts of documented quotes to the effect that Dempsey was paid to take a dive aswell as quotes from some that it was totally legit so who knows???? But genuienly what do you think?? Be brave GreatA stick your neck out - tell us what you really think did happen - do you really think Jack Dempsey was genuinely KO'd in one round by Jim Flynn really?? How likely do you think that is??? Come on don't worry about what Bokaj might think of you Come on tell us what you really think I genuienly can't wait for your answer - if you really do believe Flynn KO'd Demps in a round you must have the mighty Flynn pretty high in your top 10 heavys of all time - certainly higher than Jack Dempsey at least on the basis that he KO'd the prime Dempsey in one round?? Come on GreatA put your cards on the table - Flynn KO Jack? :rofl - or Jack Dived??

 

Your actually attempting to use Dempsey's ex wife as a reliable source?