goosen wants toney - couture..

And then what? Is Couture supposed to challenge Toney to a Greco-Roman wrestling match?

 

Couture would get flattened in the first round in a Boxing Ring. No need for it.

 

:huh Why? James is a Pro boxer and Randy is a Pro MMA fighter.... Toney is going over to Randy's arena which is the MMA Cage and Dan is offering anther way to make money by Randy coming over to Boxing and facing Toney in his arena.

Toney wouldn't ask Randy to face him in a AM Boxing match.....nor would Randy ask Toney to face him in a Greco Roman match. Doesn't make sense.

 

Sounds like a ready made excuse to me. mma fighters arnt saying they are the best boxers in the world, there saying they are the best fighters in the world.

 

Nah....Toney knows the chips are stacked well against him in the cage, but he's a competitor. He's looking for challenges and believes he can beat any MMA fighter....of course he knows he has to prepare for the different layers or dynamics that are foriegn in boxing, but his mentality as a fighter is evident.

MMA is a more dynamic form of fighting b/c there are so many layers that go along with it. Boxing is a specialized form of fighting which only incorporates the use of hands which is why there is a HUGE disparity in striking when comparing boxing to MMA.

Being the best fighter in the world means being the best at what you do in the combat sport you specialize in. Whether that's boxing or MMA is a huge question mark. If Toney beats Randy in his own profession it won't mean boxing is better than MMA or if Randy came over and boxed Toney and somehow won it wouldn't mean MMA is better than boxing, but it would give fans some kind of baseline.

 

Im not doubting toney's mentality as a fighter one bit but totally disagree he feels the cards are stacked well against him, every interview i've seen from him he's pretty much saying clinching and ground work wont work against him because he's so skilled with his hands and will have better punching power than most in mma. I agree with you about whoever wins dont prove nothing about which is the stronger sport but to me fighting means doing whatever it takes to be last man standing (not including weapons of course lol) and mma is the nearest thing to that where as boxing is a very limited form of fighting. Not knocking boxing at all as i love both sports. Just my opinion and look foward to seeing how this fight plays out :thumbsup

 

I feel you bro! And I agree with you on most levels. But a fight always starts on your feet and usually with the hands. Which is a boxers domain....of course for a actually fight without gloves or protection a boxers specialized skill set immediately impacts the potential outcome of the fight. Fights are usually very fast and end with one guy knocked out. Of course if the fight ends up on the ground the guy who doesn't have those skills or abilities the fight is pretty much a given.

But from a pure street fight perspective I know my hands are my most effective and first line of offense and that would be my foundation if I were a fighter in any combat sport. I think Randy should win, but I will not be surprised at all if Toney catches Randy and puts him to sleep. I just think Randy is gonna take Toney to the ground and I think James is gonna surprise A LOT of folks who were sleeping on him. I think he'll lose by GNP but he'll make it compeitive and he'll show some new layers in his fight game with what he's been learning.

 

Toney loves to fight but he is a ****ing bum in training. Even for this MMA fight he won't get in perfect physical condition. Naturally, he'd beat em all. If he fought guys who were in the same shape as him, he'd **** them up but he lets the Thadzi, Peters and Rahman get in his league just because he doesn't want to do his roadwork. He has been chasing Dana since December but I wonder if he even started training then.

I'd be intrigued at Goosen vs Toney but not if it was expensive. Suprisingly, Couture has much more boxing/striking experience then James does grappling but Toney would dominate and embarass him in boxing.

 

You are missing the point by a LARGE margin. MMA is an even playing ground for a wrestler and a boxer. The boxer can box, and the wrestler can wrestle. In a boxing match, Couture would not be allowed to wrestle. In a wrestling match, Toney would not be allowed to strike/box. MMA provides them with an arena in which they can each apply their craft and see which one wins out.

Couture boxing Toney in a boxing match makes as much as sense as Toney wrestling Couture in a Wrestling match. This isn't about how much money they could make... it's about putting them up against each other in a manner that makes sense... where they are both allowed to use their strengths.

 

Come on guys, in fairness, Couture is no longer a wrestler in MMA. He was a good boxer and a great wrestler but that was 13 years ago. He is a mixed martial artist to the core now, wrestling will simply remain his core.

 

Point is that it's a fight. Boxers...and a lot of boxing fans love to sit around and talk about how UFC fighters can't fight for **** and that any elite boxer would go in there and obliterate all of them. You don't see Randy Couture saying that boxers can't fight and that he would go into boxing and knock out everyone do you? You don't see MMA fans saying that either about MMA fighters. MMA is an even playing field for fighters of all styles. If you are a boxer... you can box... a kickboxer can kickbox.... wrestler can wrestle... a submission fighter can attempt submissions... ect... Clearly James Toney is the better striker. So, this comes down to Toney's striking vs Couture's grappling.

 

How is it even when it's not the rules and regulations of boxing?:huh Sure you can strike with your hands in MMA but there are other elements that can't be overlooked...such as grappling, feet, legs, elbows ect. In boxing that is NOT the case. Randy is NOT just a wrestler...he's an MMA fighter by profession. James is a boxer by profession. MMA offers fighters who are professional MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST a way to test themselves in their own SPORT.

Randy's foundation is as a wrestler but he's a professional Mixed Martial Artist. James is a pro boxer who is now LEARNING MMA which incorporates other disaplines but at the end of the day Toney is a pro boxer where Randy is a pro MMA fighter.

At the end of the day Toney's strength is as a boxer and Randy's is as a MMA fighter which is a mixture of Wresting, BJJ, boxing and Muy thai.....so this is Randy's domain....a boxing ring is Toney's...so if Randy had the same mentality of James he wouldn't have much problem steppin out of his comfort zone as James is by entering to MMA. I don't think Randy would have a problem with that but I'm sure Dana would.

 

True...it's a fight, but boxing is a fight as well. With different rules and regualations. UFC fighters can definitly fight....MMA fighters in general can fight but at the end of the day their striking with their hands are not on level with pro boxers. MMA is an even playing field for OTHER MMA fighters....just like a boxing match is an EVEN PLAYING FIELD for OTHER boxers.

In MMA you can't "BOX" the way you would box in a real sanctioned boxing match b/c of the different elements that one has to be prepared for in MMA. So its not cut and dry like you are trying to make it out to be.

James is the better BOXERS....so he is a better striker with the hands...but this isn't BOXING...this is MMA, so the "Striking" is a bit different and Randy has been a MMA fighter for a long time. His depth in MMA is by far deeper than Toney who hasn't even had ONE fight in a cage yet.

This comes down to a pro boxer making a move to fight one of the best MMA fighters in his own element. Says a lot about James and his fighters mentality......as Anderson Silva looked to show when he challenged Roy Jones Jr.

 

I agree completely.... about boxers clearly being better with their hands. That's obvious and I don't think that any MMA fan would ever say different. I am a huge boxing fan, btw.... which I am sure you know.

I also agree that everything is different about even just the striking in MMA. You can't box at all like you would in a boxing match. Also, the technical moves like the great defensive shoulder roll that James uses is useless. You can't shoulder roll a double leg takedown.

That's the point though. There are so many people out there with such a screwed up idea about a real fight that they think any top pro boxer is going to walk into the UFC and mop the floor with everyone because of his brilliant use of his hands. Same as James Toney... calling out the Dana White and UFC fighters over and over again... calling them jokes, cowards, ect... claiming that they are all garbage fighters, ect.... claiming that he will knock them all out in an MMA fight. Now, James is getting what HE asked for. So... why would Randy Couture need to then get into a silly boxing match with James Toney... which proves nothing? Especially considering the fact that Randy never once asked for a boxing fight... claimed that he would knock them out in a boxing match...called them garbage...or persued a boxing match against them in any way? Randy isn't even close to being a boxer and striking is the weakest part of his arsenal. Like I said before...that is the same as people demand that Toney wrestle Couture in a wrestling match. It's pointless... Toney doesn't have a chance if he can't strike...just like Randy doesn't have a chance if he can't wrestle. In MMA...they will each have a chance to either strike or wrestle. James won't be able to box like he normally does...but it isn't like you wrestle in MMA like you normally do in a wrestling match either.

Make no mistake about it. If Randy fights smart...he wins easy. However, if he looks as lethargic coming in as he has in the past couple years...he could be in deep ****. Randy's movement on his feet has gone downhill drastically, and if James has an opening he can shoot something through. I don't even think that Randy's recent tactic of grinding a fighter against the cage is a smart idea against Toney. That will fall right into Toney's strength of letting a guy drape himself on him, roll, and rip off short hooks and uppercuts. I think that Couture needs to shoot in and get him to the ground immediately. At least until James is wore out.