Wladimir Klitschko has entered The Ring's P4P@#10

Now that's a new level of smug- anyone who disagrees with you must not understand your point?

I understand your point completely- you don't think Wlad qualifies for a P4P list because he enjoys physical advantages he wouldn't at other weights.

I simply disagree. No man can rule over the heavyweight division like Wlad has with size alone- it takes exceptional skill and execution to continue shutting out fighters gunning for his titles when they know what's coming, what to prepare for, and how important beating him would be. There aren't 10 fighters today who have the skill and physical ability to do what Wlad does. :!::good

 

Okay, so you're telling me if we equaled weight that Wlad would be superior than JMM, Donaire, Williams, Martinez? You do as you rank him #3. That's absolutely crazy, and Wlad would have to fight if these factors were leveled. And let me not even talk about the HW division. I think Wlad is a great fighter with great skills, and if P4P meant the best fighters based on achievement and skill than he would be in my top 10. But in the purist sense, I would not include him as my top 10 P4P fighter. In fact, P4P I don't think he's would be that much better than guys like Chambers or Adamek. Even Haye is arguably better on a P4P level and I would never include him on a P4P list.

So no, there was clearly no indication you understood my point. You just said you disagreed and talked about his dominance. Really, I know of his ****ing dominance, which is over guys generally 20-30 pounds lighter and 2-4 inches shorter. A P4P fighter in the truest sense of the word.

If you want to argue P4P is stupid, lame, and childish then that's something else. Wlad would be a totally different fighter if these aspects were leveled, which makes the whole argument trivial. Though, I'm not sure my definition is the universal understood definition. Heck, Adamek is a better fighter on a P4P level. Obviously Wlad has skill... I'm sure his jab jab jab right cross in the 10th round impresses you. Without that size advantage there is no way he'd be dominating in the same way. He would be way more hittable, and would be forced to fight and not hang behind a jab. That chin would get tapped. :good :!:

 

Sergio Martinez would spank Wlad in some P4P universe.

What does P4P mean to most people? Do you just look at achievements and skill in each weightclass and figure out the greatest fighters? Or do you literally imagine fighter's being equaled in weight?

 

Number one for me.

The scond makes no sense imo. How do you imagine fighters being equalled in weight? If they were equalled in weight all of their other attributes would be different, their fighting styles would be different and their entire boxing development would have been different.

 

The truth is that the Ring P4P list is nothing else than a collective bias of those responsible for compiling it. Change the jurors and you'll get different results. Since there's no standardised procedure for determining the P4P level of a given fighter, the P4P list has ho objectivity and shouldn't be paid any attention to.

 

Yeah, he was a 5.10 heavyweight but i get your point.

But Wladimir in front of 3 time world champion Cotto?:huh

 

exactly, why do people over complicate.

Its public opinion based on achievement at your weight.

A mythical Martinez at heavyweight would spank Wlad. but it doesnt work like that heavyweight aren't as agile as sergio.

 

Paul Williams relies on height and weight, yet he gets into the top 5.

Personally I see p4p as a comparison of fighters from different divisions without resorting to head to head. Your argument of how Wlad would do if he were smaller is a silly one imo. For a start we don't know how his biggest weakness (chin) would fare if he was a natural middleweight, he could be iron chinned. Also we know he has very good handspeed and footwork as a heavyweight, so obviously as a natural middleweight he'd be zipping about the ring letting fast combinations go.

My point is you can't just assume a heavyweight would fight as a scaled down version of themself if they were a natural ww/mw- punch output, speed and chin would be much improved

 

About time.

 

exactly. how about sergio adds a hundred pounds. not a mythical martinez, the real one and see how well he does against wlad

 

Haye should be #2, after Floyd. :bbb

 

Retired boxers can't be listed:hi:

 

That's crazy. Wlad shouldn't be anywhere near the top 10.

 

ranking people p4p is quite hard. on one aspect the skill level must be considered, but equally achievements must also be considered. hopkins rose throught the lists by dominating one weight class.

i wasnt alive back then, but im sure hagler also rose through the lists after dominating one weight class.

calzaghe rose through the lists after dominating one weight class.

it is all well and good people saying p4p donaire would kick wlads arse, but would he really? we will never, ever know, so look at the records. one has dominated the hw division for 5 years, one has landed a big shot and ran from every name fighter since.

wlad is well deserving of his place. stylistically he is a nightmare to beat, and if it werent for his chin or stamina issues(now a thing of the ast i believe) he would be a very, very good atg top 10 shout. as it is, his chin is **** so people have a chance of victory, even though it is slim.