#1. Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay #2. Floyd Patterson #3. Cleveland Williams #4. Zora Folley #5. Nino Valdes #6. Eddie Machen #7. Mike Dejohn #8. Leotis Martin #9. Chuck Wepner #10. Henry Clark
1. Ali 2. Patterson 3. Machen 4. Folley 5. Williams 6. Martin 7. Wepner 8. Valdes (he was washed up) 9. Marshall 10. Summerlin Honorable mention to- Clark, DeJohn, Westphal His wins over Patterson x2, Machen (hard fought decision), Folley, and even Williams are impressive.
Questionable list. No way should Wepner be rated over a top 10 rated contender like Mike DeJohn. DeJohn was a big guy who could punch really hart. DeJohn should be rated above Marshall too easily. No he wasn't. Valdes said "When I fought Liston I could still hit really hard". Valdes admitted he was over the hill, but acknowledged he was still a very dangerous puncher, and a big guy too at 6'3 211lb. Valdes going into 1959 was the number 2 rated heavyweight contender in the world. Sure, he suffered a couple bad defeats in 59, but he also went on to stop future world title challenger Brian London after his fight with Liston. Here is the same version of Valdes which liston fought. Looks big and dangerous to me [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucXgHJ0s8qg[/ame]
As an avid Liston fan... Here is my list 1. Muhammad Ali 2x- 6'3 210lb 2. Floyd Patterson 2x- 6'0 195lb 3. Zora Folley- 6'1 195lb 4. Eddie Machen- 6'0 195lb 5. Cleveland Williams 2x- 6'3 215lb 6. Nino Valdes- 6'3 211lb 7. Leotis Martin- 6'1 200lb 8. Mike DeJohn- 6'5 207lb 9. Johnny Summerlin- 6'1 195lb 10. Roy Harris- 6'1 195lb HM: Henry Clark- 6'3 215lb
Q's is best. I'd poach that although i'd have Clarke higher than Harris and maybe Summerlin given that it's likely that Summerlin got better.
Yes, perhaps. But watch Roy Harris outside of his fight with Liston. Harris was actually pretty good. He had nice textbook boxing skills, good left jab, a high guard, and he was pretty tall for the era. Not a bad fighter.
No, I'm sick of trying to argue and have other people be dismissive. I actually rate Liston pretty highly as a H2H force, just not top 3, and I don't think Machen was an A-level slickster genius.
Here's the thing about these remarks - Nobody thinks that all these fighters were all time greats. And nobody thinks that Machen was an "slickster genius". So these little barbs make absolutely no sense - they are either totally meaningless or designed to elicit a set response, namely, your dismissal. You complain about it. Rinse. Repeat.
... on how they did vs. Liston compared to the other fighters he faced They were not as good as Patterson or Folley but actually gave Liston more problems.