Roy Williams in today's heavyweight division

Tiger Williams would be a fair test for today's Heavies. If you are good enough to beat him, you would have a fair chance of cracking the top ten Heavies of this era.

 

Williams was big, and strong, but he was a little slow, and not terrible skilled. Tough to gage, Roy Williams was an avoided fighter in his prime. I think he could be a top ten guy today, but not a likely alphabet champion.

 

I always thought Williams was over- rated. He was a decent fighter but nothing to fear. An example of this is he lost to Richard Dunn, Dunn had 12 losses, 11 by KO Dunn beat Williams. Point is if Williams was anything he would have KO'd Dunn. He also lost to Henry Clark who was a fair fighter who I remember lost to Jack OHalloran. Most of the people who say he was avoided were not alive or over 5yrs old at that time. Today Williams would be stopped by both Klitschko's, and would have been beaten by most of the Klitschko victims such as Austin,Ibraginmow,Chagaev,Brock,Areola,Peter,Thompson IMO

 

Williams is totally overrated today based on Holmes saying he was scared of him. Every legitimately skilled contender level fighter Williams faced he lost to. Period. He was also used as a human heavy bag in sparring by Ali when Ali was past his best, and I mean literally a human heavy bag. Ali would kick the living **** out of Williams. Guys like that, guys that never crack into legitimate contender status typically never will in any era. The cream almost always rises to the top and Williams wasnt the cream of any era.

 

Over the last two years or so I've always seen a thread crop up on Roy 'Tiger' Williams. I have never added my two cents because - well - I really couldn't be bothered. It seemed there was a myth being perpetuated about him that was similar to Sol 'Bagelboy' Nazerman, except for the fact that Williams actually existed. The best line I read in the Williams mythos was that every viable contender was avoiding him. I can assure everyone, as I was eating, breathing, drinking boxing and knew every hot shot on the planet as well as every prospect, that Roy Williams was on no ones radar. He was a glorified sparring partner, that's all. I am sorry if I am bursting someones bubble.

Scartissue

 

Thanks Scartissue.

I have some questions. Was the lack of radar due to promotional connections, or the high risk / low reward type of proposition that can prevent big punchers from getting fights?

Also, in your opinion was Roy Williams reputation as a puncher earned or fabricated?

 

Not when Ali owed him money and Williams fought him to collect it ... he fought him tooth and nail for two days in sparring and more than held his own ...

I also disagree with your over all ... Williams was a lost soul, on drugs and did little serious training ... he had plenty of natural skill ... he simply was a waste of talent .. I know many guys that fought with him and they all support Larry' 100 percent.

 

There once was some liberties I took in explaining this guy as the "ultimate darkhorse" (well, I was wrong Harry Willis, Murderers Row, and Sam Langford fit that bill much better). However, I let the myth of this guy overrun me and about a year or so ago I began to breakdown some truth about the guy. This is why some of us see him as overrated:

A. He's in the Ali circus, and was one of the principle training partners for Ali's Deer Lake days till a dispute over cash came up. Hanging out with those spindoctors is gonna get you some clout. Plus at Deer Lake you've got guys like Plimpton and Mailer making note of how tough Williams was.

B. He's from Philly. In the tradition of Philly fighters, Williams was one of them. Rough, tough, and an attitude the size of Pennsylvania. The stories prove true.

C. He was a "bad dude". We've heard the stories, I'm gonna put quotes and stories about Williams in my very next post.

Watching the limited footage of the guy, he fought tough and stubborn. He was a "my way" type of guy and that's exactly how he wanted it. However, can't sell him short. He's got good skills and some good punches. His left hook was quick and thudding, his right hand lead was a cross between Ali and Foreman. However, standing and trading with Earnie Shavers is a horrible idea. He wasn't that bad, but had flaws. Tough guy though.

 

Some guys are just better suited being sparring partners and make a career out of it. They just don't ever seem to shine when they have an audience like a live fight.

 

Larry Holmes on having to face Roy "Tiger" Williams in Facing Ali : "Williams was one of the most serious contenders out there at that time. No one wanted to fight him. I didn't want to fight him either. For three-thousand dollars? A guy that would knock your head off. But it was either that or you were afraid of him, you ain't going to never be nothing. I didn't want them to say I was afraid of him and I wanted to show people that I wanted to be something. So I fought him and broke my left hand on his elbow in the third or fourth round and still won ten rounds out of ten."

Earnie Shavers on Williams in Facing Ali : "Ali had a sparring partner named Roy "Tiger" Williams. He said, 'If you beat Tiger Williams, I'll give you a shot.' I knew Tiger Williams. He was a tough, tough guy. So I made up my mind I would knock this guy out. We took the fight, I trained hard. The first eight rounds, I was ahead on points. He came back in the ninth and the beginning of the tenth, and damned near destroyed me." (That's not all of it, but it gets a little simple and we know the result)

Norman Mailer on Williams sparring with Ali at Deer Lake, PA in The Fight : "The last three rounds were with Roy Williams, introduced to the crowd as the Heavyweight Champion of Pennsylvania, and he was Ali's size, a dark gentle sleepy-looking man who boxed with such respect for his employer that the major passion appeared to be a terror of messing with Ali's charisma. Williams pawed the air and Ali wrestled around...as if curious to test his [Ali's] arms against Roy Williams's strength. " (Also, there's more, but it focuses on Ali and not Williams)

Other random stuff:
- Williams is also known for almost killing a prison doctor that tested a shampoo on him that removed his hair. He was furious over the "clumps of hair" he was losing. Here the prison was being paid by Dow Company and Johnson & Johnson to conduct experiments of their products upon inmates. These inmates were paid a pittance for their "guinea pig" job. This is noted in Acres of Skin: Human experiments at Holmesburg Prison. At the end of this book there is a picture of an older Tiger Williams (taken circa 1994) looking quite jovial in the pic.
- Ted "The Bull" Sares wrote a piece on him called, "The Night the Tiger Roared" claiming him to be one of the best unknown fighters in the heavyweight division.
- I can't seem to find the documentation of Williams telling Holmes to stop cheering for him ringside during one of his (Williams) fights.

As you can tell, I was once enthralled by Roy "Tiger" Williams. I discovered him to be a tough Philly contender and nothing more. At best he's a threat to the worst champs in history, and capable of being a rough and tumble fighter that didn't like to take other people's ****.

 

I stand by my analysis.

 

Mendoza, sorry to be so late getting back to you. Re: Roy. When I say he was on no ones radar, to be clear, it would only be in the sense of the journeyman/sparring partner that anyone would think of him. Not unlike a Jody Ballard or Levi Forte or Scrapiron Johnson. In an instance, if these guys were taken lightly, an upset could occur. Think of Jesse Ferguson-Ray Mercer. But for the most part, these guys would perform well and get beaten by the local kid. Looking at Roy's resume, he had the size but according to his record there were some wild fluctuations in his weight, suggesting lack of training/interest. There were some gaps in his activity, again suggesting either lack of interest/heart or his private life had come into play. Promotionally, he had his chances at the brass ring a number of times and blew it. Being unable to get past Richard Dunn and Larry Middleton pigeon-holed him. He did have a nice win towards the end of his career against prospect Walter Moore. Moore was being promoted by Ernie Terrell and being move along at Terrell's pace, but if memory serves me Moore was either unhappy with this pace or listened to someone because he jumped the gun and went to Vegas where he was KO'd by Roy. Perhps it was Roy himself who prevented the career from going anywhere from lack of desire or outside influences. Perhaps with the right people behind him he 'coulda been a contendah', Regardless, anything said about what happened in the gym is window dressing. There have always been some bad dudes in the gym, but what happens when that bell rings is another matter. And unfortunately Roy fit into this category.

Scartissue

 

He had a sparring partner mentality but he was big, durable and could punch. His left hook had decent speed and he could double and triple it up.

The story goes that his trainer tried to fire Williams up during the Shavers fight by telling him that he "needed to money". Williams, behind on points after 8 rounds, came out rejuvenated in the 9th and gave Shavers a beating, nearly knocking him out in the 10th before being miraculously stopped himself.

Basically he was just a fighter who wasn't really willing to pay the prize to become a top contender, but when motivated could be dangerous to vulnerable opponents.

 

I don't think he beats either Klitschko, Wlad is to smart and to polished and I think Vitali would just knock out Williams.. A fighter like Williams I give a shot against a fighter like David Haye, Haye has a suspect chin and if Roy cranked him good it could be lights out..

I think he would be a top 5 or 10 contender but I don't see him ever winning the title even with today's current crop.. I just don't think he would have had the ability to put it all together.