Who was better - Peter Jackson or James Corbett?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Aug 22, 2010.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,371
    48,748
    Mar 21, 2007
    I'll chuck up a couple of these if guys show an interest. Two fighters, comparable, perhaps with a draw or extremely close fight in their history, comparable records, comparable skillsets (where film is available) and most of all a reasonable question as to who is better. To start with, we've got The Black Prince, Peter Jackson, and HW boxing's second gloved champion, James J Corbett.



    James J Corbett
    This content is protected


    Corbett was known for his skill on defence, his cultured left hand and his skill in strategy and generalship. He also proved himself immensely durable with near limitless stamina - at his conditioned best he was capable of near unparalleled strength of will, sustaining him for more than sixty rounds on one occasion. Quick-witted and fisted, he was only ever beaten by the two greatest HW's of his era, Bob Fitzsimmons and Jim Jeffries - both with punching, neither with boxing. In fact both men were outboxed by Corbett.

    Corbett also fought Peter Jackson. The fight is a source of some controversy and obviously key in picking out the superior man, but there's actually little to help us there. Jackson was arguable prime whilst Corbett may have been slightly pre-prime. It is also the case that Corbett wanted to continue past the 61st round whilst Jackson insisted the fight was over. Whilst there was apparently little to chose between the two men throughout, it could be argued that Corbett proved himself the greater of the two in terms of guts and will, and he also seems to have been the speedier of the two - any tightening of technique Corbett managed in the wake of this super-tough learning fight would be of real benifit.

    Corbett stood 6'1, weighed around 180 at his very best and had a reach of 73".


    Probable Advantages: Speed, Generalship, Accuracy, Will.



    Peter Jackson
    This content is protected


    Jackson, who turned pro some four years before Corbett in 1882, may have been the very first of the genuinely athletic big men. Jackson was slightly taller, had a reach advantage of four inches and at his best weighed in as a modern heavyweight, right on the 200lb mark. Perhaps unfairly men of this size are seen as behemoth dreadnoughts, lethal when allowed to position themselves, but vulnerable to smaller, faster men who were able to manuevere themselves more quickly. An apparently then rare combination of grace, size and skill, Jackson seems to have been amongst the most complete technicians of his era.

    Jackson went totally unbeaten between '85 and '97, including his prime years, his best win likely the 10 round knockout of Slavin.

    It is true that Jackson was keen to have his fight with Corbett deemed a draw - but it is also true that very little had happened in the battle for some ten rounds. It is also true that Jackson was favoured by many to win that fight, as the man of experience - it is also true that an injury to an ankle a couple of weeks before the fight seriously impacted his training and, according to some, his mobility, upon which he rellied as a fighter. More reasons why this fight fails to shed as much light as we might like on the question at hand. Arguably the more technically gifted of the two.


    Probable Advantages: Technique, Size, Strength, Power.






    These thumb nail sketches are just that, and in no way exhaustive - so feel free to make a post when you vote, to explain yourself or to sway your readers, but it's the poll that will decide the question itself - which of these two was better?
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,635
    9,679
    Jul 15, 2008
    Going by their fight it is inconclusive ... in finish fights with the 1291 rules Corbett could run forever in the hopes that his opponent would tire ... Jackson also entered the bout with a hurt leg which j=hindered his training ... in a set 15 round fight, who knows ? Jackson was supposed to be a marvel and Corbett's style, if JIm was forced to fight to win in a specific distance, is no a bad match up for Jackson ... just too hard to call .. I actually feel a prime Sullivan would have been a tougher match up for Jackson than Corbett ...
     
  3. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    28,075
    54
    Oct 15, 2007
    I've just read the opening post, i'm going to look a bit deeper and see if i can come to a conclusion i'm happy with. Good thread
     
  4. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

    624
    22
    Dec 5, 2005
    Peter Jackson was better
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,669
    27,383
    Feb 15, 2006
    I would personaly come down on the side of Peter Jackson.

    I see a slightly deeper resume with more of the top names of the era, and I fancy that Jackson was a little better head to head at his absolute peak.

    I am not saying that there is necesarily a big margin in it.
     
    djanders and Tonto62 like this.
  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    92
    Nov 10, 2008
    From my research on Jackson he was probably one of the very first composite-punchers/boxer-punchers. Perhaps he was revolutionising the way offensive boxing was to be used much in the way Corbett revolutionised the way defensive boxing was used. I'm not entirely sure.

    I'm not knowledgeable enough on either guy, and don't have the time to research either guy, so will not pass judgement but thought that little thought might be useful to some.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,669
    27,383
    Feb 15, 2006
    Jackson was revolutionary in the sense that no previous heavyweight had ever had his combination of size and technical ability.

    Jem Mace was the technician by which all others were measured and Peter Jackson was almost like a 200lb version of Jem Mace. Probably not something that anybody had ever expected to see. It would be like if a fighter emerged today who was as big as Nicolai Valueve, but had a similar skillset and athleticism to Lennox Lewis.
     
  8. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    92
    Nov 10, 2008
    So perhaps a fore-runner to the 'Super Heavyweights'?
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,669
    27,383
    Feb 15, 2006
    Verry much so.

    He would have been something like Lewis today relative to what had been before.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,371
    48,748
    Mar 21, 2007


    This is how I see it.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    62,447
    47,629
    Feb 11, 2005
    I see Jackson's abilities as more the creation of postmodern imaginations. Sure, he was good enough to draw with Corbett and Goddard, but that does not make him a monster in my opinion, just another elite heavy of his era. Otherwise, there is much of his career that can not be judged by a modern perspective since we must merely rely on the opinions of observers who never saw a modern ring.

    And how is a 6 foot 1 200 lb fighter the predecessor to the modern superheavy? Hell, Corbett was as tall and only 10 or so pounds lighter?
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,371
    48,748
    Mar 21, 2007
    This is pretty meaningless though. The very fact that he was "good enough to draw with Corbett" means that he's about as good as Corbett.

    And if that's the case, he was amongst the best HW's of his era. That's as much as we know for sure, whatever you make of the impact of "postmodern imaginiations" on the cold hard facts.

    He is a predecessor in that he comes before, or preceeds them, and was the best big man pre-Jeffries.
     
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,636
    1,912
    Dec 2, 2006
    Resume wise I give Corbett the edge. Jacksons draw with Goddars at his very peak hurts him as does the Corbett fight, he was the more advanced of the two, career-wise at that time. Losses to Farnan and trouble with tough brawlers like Fallon, Lambert also hits at his overall standing. As against that people who saw him rated him very high.
    Corbett had a decidedly thin resumee himself, a few short points wins over bare-knuckle/gloved cross-over fighters in McCaffrey and Kilrain, the Jackson draw, John L, and of course Choynski. No worth while wins in the last ten years of his career except the dubious McCoy fight but the Jeffries and Fitz losing efforts were commendable. No Slavin, Ruhlin, Maher or Goddard in there. Still I gave my vote to Jim for longevity and no really poor performance.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    62,447
    47,629
    Feb 11, 2005
    I do believe I stated he was elite. Beyond that, it is a real leap of intellectual faith to represent him as more. He does not represent some great leap in size for the division. Sullivan himself was a brute at 5-11, 195 to 200, and as I stated earlier, Corbett was near the same size as Jackson, 10 pounds lighter perhaps. The statement that he was a predecessor of the superheavies is a stretch at giving him more credit than is really deserved.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,669
    27,383
    Feb 15, 2006