Sonny Liston vs. David Haye

Down 20 times in his career doen't put his chin in the Chuvalo or Foreman bracket does it?

 

I think it depends how much mob money's on liston

 

:huh Ali destroyed Liston twice...which fights were you watching?

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He was only done against noted punchers though really. The likes of Liston and Johansson are ATG punchers at heavyweight, and Johansson particularly found it hard to keep him down. The other fighters he were down to are the likes of Roy Harris, Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena, all noted punchers, the latter two when past his prime.

Nobody is saying his chin is in the Chuvalo or Foreman bracket, but Flea Man & I both hold the same view that his chin is not as bad as people make it out to do. It's average, he's suspectible to knock-downs yes, but really only against noted punchers, and he's rarely been kept on the canvas, or been KO'd by one-punch.

 

Again, you seem to be missing the point. Achilles was noting that Liston did not struggle with Ali's size. He struggled - as most do - with Ali's lateral movement and speed of foot, which he struggled to keep up with and close the ring down, and also his hand-speed, as he struggled to impose his jab.

And it's debatable whether Ali destroyed him 'twice'.

 

There really is no debate here. Liston is a great technical and ATG puncher, and he's durable. The only problem would be if Haye concentrates on his lateral movement and decides to run around the ring. Liston may have a few problems cutting the ring off. But as soon as Haye looks for a way to win this fight, he loses. If Haye goes on the offensive from the get go, he gets KO'd in less than 2 minutes. If he runs and doesn't trade at all, he eventually slows and gets KO'd.

 

exactly this.

The Rademacher kd is the only really dodgy one But amateur boxing had a much more pro style, Rademacher was fairly awkward in that fight too, never did much, but still went on to fight some decent opposition.

I would pick some non-noted punchers to get him out of there, but they'd he fighters with other 'oustanding punching attributes, like Holyfield (speec/accuracy, his own durability will allow him to essentially walk Floyd down IMO, despite Floyds own power) Holmes (fast, sharp and nasty enough) and Vitali (just very tall and hard for Floyd to reach, he is just f'n heavy, not a pucher by any means but I think he would just knock Floyd over IMO)

But I wouldn't pick every fairly hard puncher to bomb him out, put it that way. Floyd had decent powers of recovery for the most part, it was a testament to Liston that he managed the feat twice, Ingo could only time Floyd sporadically after their first encounter, if I'm not mistaken Liston actually decimates Patterson quicker in their second fight

Beast. And I don't think Haye, despite another stone and a half or whatnot (and the fact he's naturally bigger) isn't a more formidable H2H prospect than Floyd, not yet, and so far, probably not ever.

 

My point in my last post was clearly about size.

 

There can be no debate, Haye TKO 6.

 

No doubt, I mean, Liston may have had a good jab, but was he better than Valuev?

End ofD

 

Liston retires after 4 rounds of Valuev pressure. Haye dominted Valuev. Therefore Haye>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liston. :thumbsup