George Foreman Vs Muhammad Ali in an immediate rematch

It's weird, because he was only able to deploy it in Manila and the loss to Leon Spinks after Foreman. He beat nine of his remaining challengers without it. (It never worked against Frazier, and Leon exploited it by targeting the biceps and scything through Ali's guard with uppercuts. Nobody else was interested in taking up his repeated invitations to attack him against the ropes after Kinshasa.)

 

yeah, the rope a dope wasn't magic, that's for sure...

 

Ali did try to bail Ron Lyle with the rope-a-dope, but Lyle never took the invitation. I think Ali tried several times in fact.

 

He tried it with Bugner too, who actually succeeded instead at getting Ali to come to him on the ropes and do most of the work. Ali wasn't Foreman when it came to attacking Bugner though. He repeatedly rushed Joe, lashing him with flashing combination punching to the head, then clinched to prevent countering. Lather, rinse, repeat. He also went to Bugner's body a few times with blows which Dunphy described as, "Solid thumps!" (That was how Muhammad opened up round four. When faced with a taller retreating opponent like Bugner or Blue Lewis, he didn't hesitate to go to the body in low risk situations.)

 

When did Foreman ever fight a well paced 15 rd fight?

 

I think the Lyle fight is pretty illuminating.

Ali was in poor shape and tried to lure Lyle into the rope-a-dope during the first four rounds. It didn't work and Ali lost all four. Then Ali tried to dance for two rounds. He won the rounds, but did no damage and couldn't keep it up for long. Ok. No rope-a-dope, no dancing. Now what?

In rd 7-9 he stands in the middle of the ring and dukes it out with Lyle for the most part. Rd 7 is close, could go either way, but in rd 8 Ali has found his spot with the right and lands it repeatedly over Lyle's jab. He continues to do so in rd 9, but at a lower pace, fewer punches. But he has Lyle timed by now. In rd 10 he rests through the round. Lyle wins it, but does no damage.

In rd 11 Ali starts to pick up the pace somewhat again, finds Lyle with a blistering right and then finishes him off.


This is one of the main differences between Ali and Foreman. If plan A doesn't work for Ali, he goes to plan B and if it doesn't work he still has a plan C. George has never even heard of plan B. Before Manilla, Ali would always have found a way to beat Foreman. Afterwards it gets tighter.

 

Ali had a nation in his corner, the heat of an out door arena, loose ropes, which helped him lean back, and a guy who underestimated him. Foreman also sustianed a cut in camp, which delayed the match. This cost him focus as he did not like the locals.

Had the 1st fight been in the USA, with an air conditioned area, normal ropes, and a split crowd, things could have been different.

An immediate re-match would like go Ali;s way as he easily out boxed Foreman in the first fight. Foreman was a broken man who had a tough time dealing with defeat.

 

As I've always said on this topic,a 1975 rematch would have had Ali winning again,no matter where the fight was held,or what tactics Foreman used.

 

Agreed. Ironically after Manilla Foreman's best chance to win would have been to do what exactly what he tried to do in Zaire. Cut the ring off,and corner Ali. The Ali of 1976 on was no longer as fast and flexible as he was in Zaire. Thing is,Muhammad did such a superb psych job on Foreman,that it's unlikely that Foreman would ever have won.

 

Excellent post.:good

 

I agree with duodenum

Ali used the rope a dope in the first fight, but wouldnt need to in the second fight....

he had foreman's number the whole time, stylistically.....

frazier always gave ali problems, not just because of the immense hate and adrenaline , but because stylistically frazier could find a way inside to hurt ali.....

unfortunately for foreman, his poor movement, however well conditioned he was, meant he could not at all KO ali, and had no hope of winning a decision

i pick ali by a late TKO or wide UD

 

Frazier 3 a year later proved that Ali still had one great fight left in him & Foreman 2 would have been that one great fight.

People that say `well, George wouldnt have fallen for the rope-a-dope twice so he would have won` just arent looking at the whole picture.... Foreman was NEVER going to get off with the better punches in a mid-ring boxing match with Ali, his best bet was to do what he did & press Ali to the ropes or corner.... & just because George suddenly starts to stop dead & pick his punches when he gets Ali there rather than rush in doesnt mean Ali wont still be popping him with the same shots as before.

Foreman lost because Ali seen his punches coming & avoided them & was willing mentally to absorb whatever did land while being content to score the more flush & damaging punches..... Foreman slowing the pace down & trying to pick his shots only enables Ali to score more often & make him look silly.

Ali W15 Foreman (wide UD)

 

George was deadset on stopping Ali. Ali played him by laying on the ropes and taking punishment. George could back off 20% with a different mindset going into the fight. I dont think he ko's Ali but he could go the distance and win a decision.

 

+1

It seems foreman was on a hangover for years after the Ali fight. In an immediate rematch he would have been more vulnerable than ever. Ali would pick him apart. He not only had his n umber stylistically but also in the head game after the Zaire fight.