Compubox is manipulated, should be canned

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Aug 26, 2010.


  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Compubox was once again totally manipulated by HBO, the dude behind the machine counted 161 Shane Mosley punches landed while it was 93 on Sergio Mora's side. That's not the fight that I saw, therefore I'm calling for anyone who had Mosley winning to count HALF of 161 = 80,5 punches landing by Mosley (and I mean LANDING) as I don't believe he even landed HALF of the reported amount. The system totally failed once more, so did Herold Lederman, Mora clearly outlanded Mosley and bested him in 12 rounds, but HBO that "loves Mosley" (quote from Merchant) told the viewer a different story, and guess what, several posters here simply repeat what they heard or read on screen.

    Believe your own eyes and rewatch the fight without sound and looking at Compubox updates, and you'll see Mora clearly doing the clean effective punching in the entire 12 rounds. Please read my post-Dawson analysis before reply:
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    Just a few weeks after the Alexander-Kotelnik disgrace where the Compubox system very clearly came up with unrealistic punch stats in favor of the HBO fighter, the Dawson-Pascal bout also featured stats clearly differing from reality.

    "Compubox" has nothing to do with computers, it's some dude pushing buttons whenever he sees a "jab" or "power punch" landing, but "landing" is not only subjective, but it's very easy to manipulate - and it is clearly being manipulated today. It is an HBO founded system and it's doesn't even sound shocking that they'd use their own system on their on shows to make their own fighters look better, manipulating the stats could be considered as "smart business move." I defended Compubox as a system of at least roughly putting the fight into numbers that could be used in career-perspective (like how Hopkins' stats changed during the last decade), but to be used as an argument of who won, it is totally unreliable.

    I dare to say Kotelnik landed at least 1,5 times the punches Alexander did, and in the first few rounds in the Dawson-Pascal fight which saw Pascal regularly scoring and Dawson having little success, Compubox was so off that even HBO employee Jim Lampley mentioned that the system might be having an off night, because it's not showing the fight he was watching. According to Compubox, Pascal (who won most of the rounds and clearly scored with the better punches all night except one big Dawson flurry before the 11th and the 11th), the system somehow saw Dawson throwing more punches, landing more punches (!) and landing at a higher connect %. Saw what? Clearly manipulated. The fight that I saw once again was dominated by the non-HBO guy, and regardless of the official judges - we are talking about Compubox only - the system showed that it's completely useless.

    Another problem with HBO's manipulative system that one thing leads to another: Harold Lederman always uses Compubox to justify his scores to the public even if it is way off. There were rounds completely dominated by Kotelnik that Compubox saw as even and Lederman gave it to the HBO fighter, like he gave the 2nd round to Dawson. You could hear Lampley's disbelief as he asked just how the hell Harold gave that one to Chad, then when closer rounds came Lederman quickly gave Pascal a bunch as if "correcting" himself.

    This is pro boxing not amateur, as a non-manipulated system Cumpubox would be an interesting statistic, but the way it is implemented during the telecast it became a manipulative weapon therefore should be canned, and I like him, but HBO's unofficial judge Harold must go too.

    There's actually no reason whatsoever to use Compubox stats nor an unofficial judge, there are the commentators whose job is to translate what happening to the less knowledgable or sharp-eyed audience and that's that, we are here to watch the fight not statistic decorated all around the screen. Can this ****!
     
  2. Flash Jab

    Flash Jab Boxing Junkie banned

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    I agree, but it's such a useful tool if it was ever done correctly.
     
  3. HENDO

    HENDO Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not to mention the fact that Wedsnday Night Fights on ESPN, the one with that Cuban kid, gave different numbers for the Alexander Kotelnik fight which showed that Kotelnik landed more punches.
     
  4. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bone, you just say dominated?

    I guess we watched a different fight.
     
  5. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    They should can Compubox.
    Jim Lampley lives and hands out rounds according to it and fans in boxing forums like this continually quote the compbox stats even though they are way off.


    ......even in the rare times that that stat painted the right connect %, it stil cannot measure the intensity of the blows being connected, thus it really becomes irrelevant to using it to justify giving a fighter a round.
     
  6. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just for the debate: the fight that I saw had Pascal clearly getting the better of Dawson and winning twice the rounds (8 to 3 actually on my card), yet the stats show Dawson doing better in each stats. If you are in agreement with Compubox, we did see a different fight.
     
  7. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    More than just compubox does the punch stats. Compubox is just the service HBO pays to do so. There are other compilers there as well. I actually know one of the guys who counted the punches for Kotelnik for one of the other services in that fight. I have no idea whether the numbers for both are usually close though. Different people count punches different ways I suspect. Like, when someone is illegally holding and slapping, like often happens in a clinch, do they count that? I bet some do and some don't.
     
  8. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Is that actually true?
     
  9. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    How do you think a computer would do it?
     
  10. zulander

    zulander Boxing Addict Full Member

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    yep its true like the ams some blokes hits a button when a shot lands. Its useful but shouldnt be classed as gospel
     
  11. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Conceptually. The same way computers track people on high volume security cams. Triggering on movement. Only recording the movements then shutting off.

    All you need is four way cameras. So that you always have the front and rear of a fighter in view at all times. Trigger recording by throwing the punch and trigger scoring according to where the punch lands on the other fighter.

    You would then have a nice archive of the shots and how the computer scored them to review and be updated where needed.
     
  12. bigboxingfan

    bigboxingfan Hypejob Full Member

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    If you need compubox to decide who won the match you probably don't know boxing. I have reason to believe that the compubox numbers are manipulated. Considering that HBO itself has become a promoter and pushes certain fighters, I would suspect the numbers to be tweaked for their fighter. I suspect Kotelnik landed more than compubox showed.
     
  13. justcause

    justcause Sword of Justice Full Member

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    What does compubox have to do with what the judges see? ****.
     
  14. TheDon

    TheDon KO Artist Full Member

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    The numbers for the Kotelnik vs Alexander fight were a disgrace. Devon spent the night hitting gloves and elbows.

    If Kotelnik was a bit slicker and bobbed n weaved to avoid those punches maybe the scorer may have thought different. Standard blocking seems a bit too plain for these guys.
     
  15. vonBanditos

    vonBanditos Mσderator Full Member

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    It wouldn't work. We don't have software advanced enough to do this and we probably never will.