What are some popular pugilistic myths that have been discredited(or need to be)?

"We'll get the house doctor."

"No dummy, I need a people doctor!"

 

That would have been like something out of a cartoon

 

That Muhammad Ali's victory over George Foreman was down to Foreman being drugged,the ropes being tampered with,or anything else that deteracts from Ali's magnificent performance and victory. Duran beating Leonard in Montreal,soley because Leonard fought Duran's fight. Hearns losing to Hagler,simply because he slugged it out with Marvin.

 

True. For the first few rounds Louis gave Marciano all he could handle.

 

sorry steve but i believe that to be true

 

Leonard fought Durans fight because Duran FORCED Leonard to fight his fight. Its not Leonard just walked out there to go to war with Duran, he never did that. People who sell Duran short in that fight dont realize how good Duran was as an all around fighter. Duran could really do it all and at that point was a wrecking ball. Anyone from at least 147 down was going to have problems with him at that point in his life.

 

I dont think the first fight was a fix, and the second fight I dont know if it was a fix but I will say that if it wasnt Liston CHOSE to take the easy way out. It should be remembered that in relation to the NOI Ali didnt make it publicly known that he had converted until AFTER the first Liston fight. So the NOI probably had little or no effect on Liston's psyche prior to the first one.

The second one though unforgiven is absolutely right. The NOI was a scary group of people in the early 60s. My father was stationed at Great Lakes Naval Training Center in Chicago at this time and when they were off base in the city the sailors were told to steer clear of the Temple because the Fruit of Islam (which were basically thuggish armed guards) would hang around outside of the temple and threaten or attack whites who walked on the sidewalk in front of the Temple.

The NOI had recruited the large portion of its early base from the prison system and was now actively preaching militance against whites and as mentioned had assassinated Malcolm X for breaking away from the church when he discovered that much of what they taught was hypocritical and diverged from traditional Islam.

 

OK, here are a few. The Clay-Cooper split glove myth would have been one of my biggies but it's been said, so here are 4 more.

4) Orlando Canizales-Rolando Bohol. I believe it was televised on USA at the time. They made a big thing about Canizales breaking the 118 b. title defense record and when he dropped Bohol in the 5th, the usual cheers and lauding from the announcers followed. But I tell ya, I'm one of these guys who believes my baby blues only. I will not aimlessly follow an announcer, nor will I believe what has been written by someone who was not at a fight and is echoing some sentiment written years earlier. I saw Bohol fall in the 5th, but IMO Canizales' punch did not land. Bohol dropped before the blow landed.

3) Max Baer-Joe Louis. The story has been around for decades that "Louis knocked out Baer after first scaring the dickens out of him". I have watched that fight, admittedly it's been a while now, but when I saw it I had expected to see Baer cowering in some corner the way they talked. I did see Baer go down and stay down when it looked like he could have got up, but the scared stuff I don't buy. Baer took some heavy punishment before wrapping up his evening. He was not scared and he did get through with some nice punches on Louis. The way that story got around it has people thinking he folded like a deck of cards while soiling himself.

2) "Benny Leonard was ahead on points and didn't want the 147 lb. title, so he deliberately fouled Jack Britton". In actuality, it was Britton ahead on points and would have been successfully defending his title on a 15 round decision two rounds later. This I gleaned from same day reports on the fight.

1) This one is boxing heracy, but I don't care because I don't buy it. Ketchel dropping Jack Johnson in the 12th round. I've watched this and replayed it many times. Ketchel throws a right hand from out of the park that everyone from the back row can see coming, Johnson begins ducking awkwardly, almost like he's not sure what to do and is second guessing himself. Watch his left leg going out from under him before the blow lands, his weight is shifted on this. The blow skids harmlessly off the top of his skull. Johnson doesn't fall with the blow, he falls the opposite way. Now, if you watch this, just before the "blow" lands, freeze it (now please be objective), look at Johnson's body and tell me that Johnson isn't going to fall over anyway if that punch doesn't land? I think he was embarrassed about this (with the crowd cheering wildly) and then tore into Ketchel. Again, I don't follow like a lemming. I trust my eyes. Your thoughts?

Scartissue

 

i'm not selling duran short.the bloke was a legend but leonard still fought the wrong fight.i thought so at the time and nothing has changed my mind

 

Yes

This is completely wrong.

The NOI was used to intimidate the mob who were trying to control the outcome of the Ali/Liston fight. The mob came to Muhammad first, threatening him to play along, not knowing his NOI affiliations. So they went to the mob and basically told them that if anything ever happened to Ali they will assume it was the mob.



To think Ali would ever want an unfair win is preposterous. And the NOI would never take the risk of implicating themselves, especially when they had confidence in the boxer.

 

Robinson lost the middleweight championship five times.

He was not dethroned by a challenger the second time he relinquished it, but opted to retire as the title holder at 160 after his own LHW bid against Maxim.

 

Yes you can notice Johnson preparing for the knockdown almost.

In my mind, this is because he was in a very relaxed state of mind, because the fight was planned to go 20 rounds for the ticket sales. The punch caught him off guard. He was in a very relaxed state taking the fight easy, his mind probably drifting elsewhere. Yet being the defensive master he was, he immediatly noticed what was going on, and 1 second before the ketchel haymaker landed, he moved his head with it so it would avoid doing its maximum damage. This set him off balance pretty bad, and the punch was enough to get him down.

I think a full on Ketchel punch like that would knock anyone out cold if it landed flush, including Johnson.

 

I agree that Leonard fighting Duran's fight helped Duran to win it,but half the time it was because Duran forced him to. Duran was like a force of nature that night,and at welterweight,he may never have beaten Leonard again,I do n't think Leonard would have beaten Duran ON THAT NIGHT,no matter how he'd have fought.

 

Long count any one.

I still think Tunney would have gotten up, long count or not. And would have won the fight either way.

Other myth regards to a long count is the Douglas knockdown, had the ref counted right, Douglas would not have risen, BS. Douglas was in full aware of what was going on, and eyes being focus on the ref's count.

Even if the Ref was counting fast, Douglas would have still rise. That King held up the debate for about 3 days was BS imo.

 

I agree on Johnson Ketchel, that KD was not legit. If you watch the most complete version of the fight Johnson was literally toying with Ketchel like a man vs child. Ketchel wasnt knocking Johnson out, period. At several points Johnson literally picks ketchel up and swings him around like a girl, at another point he hits ketchel and ketchel starts to go down, Johnson grabs him under the armpits like a child and lifts him up to prevent him from falling. What Johnson was doing was selling that fight for the cameras he could have taken Ketchel out at any time.