Ray Robinson VS. Bob Fitzsimmons

It is sometimes easier to land clean flush punches on slow clumsy heavyweights, than it is on smaller, but quicker and more skillful boxers.

 

Heavyweights in those times weren't always heavyweights either, by today's standards. And it's not quite relevant anyway. I'm pretty sure, any current top 20 middleweight could knock out big unskilled bar-room brawler with one or two punches.

 

I'd like to know how this forum thinks a middleweight bout between Fitz and Monzon would play out...(?)

 

I wish there was more film of Bob in his prime to accurately gauge how he would do against later greats. Word of mouth and written reports can only take you so far. We know how Ray looked on film because there's plenty of footage of him. From the little bit of footage we do have of Fitzsimmons I would have to go with Ray, probably by decision. Fitz fought with his hands way down and held his head up and a little back. If you're fighting a man with a similar style then you can wait and trap him which is what Bob seemed to do. That seemed to be the prevailing method back then..left over from the bare knuckle era. Ray employed the more modern method..stick and move. Jab and combinations..less "swinging" and more straight punching. Which style wins? I'll go with Ray's. Sharper faster puncher and more mobile. Fitzs' best hope would seem to be in luring Ray to get close then going for the ko. Ray would know this and not give Bob the chance (or too many chances anyway). Corbett was ahead at the time of the stoppage because he was the faster boxer. Ray was even faster than Corbett and punched faster and sharper as well. This I feel tips the scale in Rays favor. No cakewalk mind you but but better technique and speed wins it for Robinson.

 

This is a good post. The question for me is what happens when Ray does fall into one of the many traps Fitz would lay for him? He's Robinson, so you're not going to be fooling him too many times during a fight. But Fitz was a master feinter and had a whole bag of tricks(according to such fellow boxing masters as Joe Gans and Kid McCoy, both of whom sat at Fitz's feet and learned the tricks of the trade).

Isn't it possible that Fitz would be successful a few times during a fight in luring Robinson into a trap or getting him to overreact to a feint and then get nailed by one of Bob's crushing punches? You know, the kind that knocked top heavyweights stiff? How does Robinson react when hit on the chin with one of these? Or even worse, to the body? Ray has to come in the danger zone some time to get his shots off. And when he does Fitz would be waiting for him. Maybe he could time one of Ray's advances juuuuust right....

Anyway, these are the questions that for me make it hard to pick a winner.

 

Fitzsimmons knocked out top professional boxers who weighed 180-200 pounds and more.
He may have KO'd some big unskilled barroom brawlers too but that's besides the point.

 

You are right about your observation that Fitzsimmons power might have carried up because his heavyweight oponents were bigger and slower, but entirely wrong to characterise the heavyweights he beat as unskilled bar room brawlers.

Let some of the current heavyweight top ten try Peter Mahers training regime and see how long they last.

 

Peter Maher was a light heavyweight. With modern training regime and weigh-ins he would easily make super middle.

 

This is a fair statement...It isn't right to judge Fitz just oof of one piece of film (and a very very old piece of film at that) But from what is seen of Fitz's style, his weight is on the backfoot, then he steps forward into a punch or into his shift...With his upper torso in a leaned back position, I'll maintain that his front leg would give a clue when he was going to punch...Just a thought.
Robinson wide decision is my pick...but will say Fitz can hurt hurt Robinson, but being able to follow up is another matter.

 

Would you rate Carmen Basilio as a boxing master?, and he split with SRR, and SRR kinda avoided a 3rd fight.

Fitz probably hit twice as hard as Basilio.

 

Monzon vs Fitzs is an excellant match up, never pondered that myself. Let me think.

 

Monzon falls, too...literally. Goodnight.

 

Robinson was shot against Basilio atsch

 

Robby fought Basilio in Sept. 1957, approx 5 months after k.o.'ing Gene Fullmer with one punch.