Boxer calls out a grappler? Weaksauce. Step up and bang!

It is like arguing with a Creationist.

 

Yeah, the problem with these arguments is the allotment of time devoted to training in different disciplines. Floyd Mayweather Jr. for example has become a member of boxing's elite by focusing on nothing but his boxing skills in training for many years. There's no substitute for experience and it can only be acquired over a period of time. If he were to decide today that he was going to devote an equal amount of time and effort to mastering the art of MMA how old would he be by the time he put it all togther? Too old, that's how old. Because of time restrictions you can't put all of your eggs in one basket. In order to train in enough areas to be a valid fighter in MMA you have no choice but to divide your time amongst various dsiciplines. A complete MMA fighter is never going to master boxing. A complete boxer is never going to master MMA. You just don't stay young and healthy long enough to piece it all together. At least I don't believe that we'll ever see it unless we're talking about a true freak of nature born with exceptional all-around abilities.

 

Huh? Why on God's green Earth would you train for a technique not allowed under your rule set? It makes no sense.

Come on man. They aren't skilled at it because they aren't training it. How does a MT fighter know how to get up off of his back? That isn't covered in their rule set and if he was a 100% MT fighter he wouldn't know. How does a wrestler throw a balanced KO punch?

BS. Most of the MMA fighters today are "Phd. graduates" from other schools that got "minor" degrees in different disciplines. BJJ, wrestling, kickboxing, judo, etc... You telling me BJJ and wrestlers don't KO fools? You telling me kickboxers and MT guys don't submit guys?

They know because they must know due to their rule set. A Boxer doesn't know because he doesn't need to know. You telling me a Boxer couldn't do the same?

 

What? So how does a MT guy survive?

I agree with you man that in any fighting art there is a learning curve. How does a BJJ guy beat a Olympic class wrestler? How does a high school level beat a lifelong BJJ practitioner? On and on.

My point is that Boxing is a SPECIFIC fighting skill. It is honed at the sacrifice of all others. If a Boxer was serious about competing under the MMA rule set he should train accordingly.

The UFC is the cream of the crop. These guys have years of skills in multiple disciplines. Pure BJJ and wrestlers couldn't compete. To throw a Boxer (or any other pure striker) in there like he is going to compete is a publicity stunt. We know how the story ends. The problem is that you act as though this has told you something definitive about the disciplines involved.

 

Your first sentance is my whole point. The boxer has trained for a tiny part of MMA and nothing else, how is he going to be able to effectively learn the vast majority of the sport in a short period of time?

MMA fighters become more well rounded, but this usually takes a while and requires them depending on their background early, and throughout the whole of their career. A boxer won't really be able to do that at the start of his career, he is just going to get taken down over and over.

Given enough years, sure, but those are going to be long years of not fighting or losing.

 

The MT fighter has trained for a tiny portion of MMA and nothing else. The wrestler has too. Dude the fact is that anyone taking part in a sport should respect it and train for it accordingly. It doesn't matter the sport or discipline. Quit acting like MMA is magical.

Just like a Boxer who wanted to compete in MMA would become more well rounded. It would also take a while. It is the EXACT same path MMA participants take.

The MMA fighters you are trying to use as examples are the elite level Vets of the MMA world. These are guys in their late twenties/early thirties, from elite MA/wrestling programs, and have risen to the top of MMA... after years of not fighting or losing.

Dude if you think I am of the school of thought that an elite level boxer can just plop in a MMA match and is "fine" you are wrong. He is better off than an MMA guy in a boxing ring due to so many of the MMA practitioners tools being taken away, but that isn't saying much. The only chance either of them have is a lucky punch.

 

I am just baffled how the path of a Boxer is "impossible" but by your definition it seems to be the exact same path of any pure striker.

 

How many pure strikers have won a championship? CroCop if you count the OWGP? After how many years with a live in BJJ coach who just so happens to have been the guy who just beat Fedor?

Really, you don't see pure strikers go on to be elite MMA fighters as a rule. The best strikers in MMA tend to be the ones not afraid to let go because they have a BJJ or wrestling background as well.

Not to mention the obvious advantage of being able to kick and knee, as well as stop kicks and knees, effectively.

Nothing is impossible, but it's going to take more training, more time, and more of a change in style for a boxer than anybody else.

 

Vitali Klitschki KO 0.5 Chuck Lidell

 

There is no such thing as a pure striker at the elite level of MMA. Everyone is a world class grappler. Come on dude. You also know that MMA didn't start with UFC right? Many of the faded strikers you see were MMA world beaters while UFC was still a side show.

How many of these "pure strikers" are elite strikers? Not prefer to KO a guy, but elite strikers. I am no MMA expert, but most of the dominant champions are strikers and MMA in general is trending toward strikers with a good grappling base and not pure grapplers (wrestling/BJJ). Much of this is due to rules and a fight format that actually hurts BJJ practitioners.

I just really don't get your thought process that makes you say, "Since a guy calls himself a Boxer he will just completely ignore other aspects of striking and grappling." If that is the case he should NOT be in MMA. See James Toney.

 

What on earth are you trying to say? You ask why I think pure strikers are different than boxers, I told you they aren't particularly, but slightly better off.

I said that in order to become elite mma fighters, people who start as pure strikers have a long, long road ahead of them, almost none have done it. A guy who starts as a boxer is going to be even further behind the game, with more to learn.

The boxer won't ignore MMA once he switches over, of course not, my point is that he has his whole life, it is going to be damn hard for him to pick them up once he switches.

The transition from boxing to mma isn't necessarily impossible, it's just that it requires the biggest change from just about any typical background.

 

@bald_head
I can't believe he's still arguing with you.

You clearly have no point in your argument... at all. You're just talking.

Now you're put words in his mouth and pretend like you were arguing against that the whole time?

 

What I am trying to say is that Boxing is just like any other striking art, once it crosses into an MMA rule set it gets heavily modified. To act as though Boxers are some "****" class of athlete that will hop into MMA still trying to Box by boxing rules is silly. Quit acting as though MMA is some mysterious unmasterable sport for one style of striker.

The only reason certain sports have an easier transition is because UFC has a specific rule set and scoring structure. If sales went down and Dana wanted to pick up some "Boxing(striking)" fans he could just stand the fighters up faster and stop scoring slams and "boring" wrestler strength based dominance, and let fleet footed strikers wear shoes. If he wanted to have a resurgence in BJJ he could remove rounds, not score perceived domninance and turn it into the war of attrition BJJ practitioners like. The RULES make the fighters!

The point is that ANY person who wants to be good at ANY sport needs to recognize its rule set, their strengths/weaknesses, and train accordingly. An MMA practioner based in Boxing as his striking form is no different.

The rest of what you say is kind of silly because Chuck Liddell was a world beater and he was a pure striker. He famously/infamously only used wrestling defensively.

 

No you guys just want to live in a fantasy land where MMA participants do everything and boxers, even though they make an MMA crossover, just keep boxing like they are in a ring. It is silly.

You are either following one rule set or the other and training to fight under it. You better train accordingly.

 

Which half, top or bottom?